South America moving help amothers!

Ruchel

Mon, Jul 14 2014, 1:12 pm

My dh's cousins are envisioning leaving Europe and may think of South America.

They are looking into Buenos Aires
Sao Paulo
MAYBE Mexico

Where (if anywhere) could they be the best fit? They don't have Imamother to ask Wink

Young yeshivish modern family
Main questions are:

is there "open"/good chol (of course good kodesh) yeshivish schooling not a community school type - they would need for their boys and for their girls
Health care/social security/gvt allowances
Security as a whole and about Jews
Jews more coming or going
% Ashkies among religious
Jewish life (mikve shop shul kollel restaurant...)
Eruv or not

thank you so much!

amother

Mon, Jul 14 2014, 4:11 pm

A friend of mine moved to Mexico City. I would describe her and her husband modern yeshivish, though she does wear long sheitel and won't force her girls to wear tights in the summer. Their kids are in community day school but many frum yeshivish families do. They haven't faced anti-Semitism, the housing cost is cheap, like $1500 per month for 4 bedroom apartment with au-pair quarters in a nice (that is, Jewish) area. But she did say most frum people are Sephardic, maybe Syrian? who support the community in a really amazing way. Her husband speaks Spanish but she said socializing is hard unless you understand the language.

amother

Mon, Jul 14 2014, 4:21 pm

Hmm, I would say Sao Paulo, less antisemitic than Buenos Aires, a big sefardic community, but also ashkenazi, many kosher shops, restaurants, mikvaot etc.

The domestic/ household work is harder in Brazil, that's why a lot of families have a live in or a maid for the whole day.

There are also a few schools to choose from, varying from chassidish to very modern.

My mum just moved there not long ago and I was there to visit her, so I know abit about it.

Don't know anything about the other communities, though.
Very friendly people aswell.

yo'ma

Mon, Jul 14 2014, 4:23 pm

I'll respond more later, but what language do they speak?

yo'ma

Mon, Jul 14 2014, 4:25 pm

amother wrote:

Hmm, I would say Sao Paulo, less antisemitic than Buenos Aires

Where do you live? Even if it might be considered more anti-semitic here, bl'a I've never encountered any anti- semitic behavior.

amother

Mon, Jul 14 2014, 4:27 pm

yo'ma wrote:

Where do you live? Even if it might be considered more anti-semitic here, bl'a I've never encountered any anti- semitic behavior.

I heard that Argentina has an antisemitic government. Sorry if I'm wrong.

yo'ma

Mon, Jul 14 2014, 4:35 pm

amother wrote:

I heard that Argentina has an antisemitic government. Sorry if I'm wrong.

There's nothing that affects the people. The president came when the Amia had the 15 anniversary of the bombing. This Friday is 20 years and she'll most likely be here again. Not like did anything to catch the culprits though. Rolling Eyes

Ruchel

Mon, Jul 14 2014, 5:09 pm

The husband speaks Spanish (and some Portugueuse? maybe not sure). Both speak English French Italian.

Thanks ladies, keep it coming!

yo'ma

Mon, Jul 14 2014, 5:17 pm

Ruchel wrote:

is there "open"/good chol (of course good kodesh) yeshivish schooling not a community school type - they would need for their boys and for their girls
Health care/social security/gvt allowances
Security as a whole and about Jews
Jews more coming or going
% Ashkies among religious
Jewish life (mikve shop shul kollel restaurant...)
Eruv or not

Buenos Aires, from my perspective Wink

All the schools here have boys and girls. Some are mixed, some are separate, but in the same building, and some have a totally separate building. I can't attest for good chol or kodesh, but the types of schools are, Bnei Akiva, which is Ashkenaz. My kids go there. Two main stream schools, one sefard and one ashkenaz. My kids used to go to the sefard one, but left for reasons that have nothing to do with the school itself. The ashkenaz one is about an hour away with traffic, but in a jewish neighborhood, but not the one I live in. There are two yeshivish types of schools, one sefard and one ashkenaz. My friend sends to the ashkenaz one. There are chabad schools. I don't know how many. There are also less religious schools that I don't know about.

I don't know about public health, but people have health insurance. The private hospitals are very nice. I don't know about social security or government allowances. If you want to know more about that, I can try to get you in touch with my friend who might know more about that.

Security as a whole is okay. I've gone to the mikva by myself at night and I don't feel scared. I would not allow my children out by themselves in the dark. It really mostly depends on where you live. I live somewhat in the jewish neighborhood. As my friend and I say, they don't do anything about petty crime. It's not rampant, but it still is there. I don't notice anyone targeting jews in particular.

15-20 years ago, jews were leaving, but then most of them came back. The economy does stink, unless you make dollars Wink

. Inflation here is ridiculous, but schools are cheap.

The majority of religious jews are sefard, but there's a nice amount of religious ashkenazim. There's a very large chabad community here and a lot of them are foreigners. I know of a few Americans, a Brazilian, and a French or Morrocan woman.

Mikva, shops, shuls, kollels, restaurants--no problem at all. There are plenty of them all.

There is no eruv here that I know of.

Any other questions, please feel free to pm me or ask here.

yo'ma

Mon, Jul 14 2014, 5:18 pm

Ruchel wrote:

The husband speaks Spanish (and some Portugueuse? maybe not sure). Both speak English French Italian.

Thanks ladies, keep it coming!

Of course since he know spanish, he has no problem. I know very little spanish, but I get around just fine. If not, I have my children Rolling Eyes

amother

Mon, Jul 14 2014, 7:19 pm

I have friends that live in Sao Paulo, they have a strong community there, both Sephardic and Ashkenaz.
They have really good schools, and they are both strong in secular and kodesh because in Brazil they have to follow government guidelines in any school,regardless of religion.

They have great restaurants there, everyone is really friendly, you can find all types of communities there, from modern to chassidish.

There is a strong Bnei Akiva there as well, there are nice mikvaot, some neighborhoods have an eruv.

Even though there is public free health care there, it is not very efficient and I would highly recommend that if they went there they get private health insurance.

Maids there are very affordable, most people have maids full time, and they do everything from cooking to cleaning, to babysitting.

I really enjoyed the city, I think it's worth looking into!

amother

Tue, Jul 15 2014, 9:12 am

I live in Sao Paulo, and I would not recommend moving here.
Unless you are VERY rich.
Housing is exorbitant
Tuition is expensive
Healthcare is exorbitant (and no I would NOT rely on gov healthcare)
There is no infrastructure in the jewish community to help the poor
Kosher Food is exorbitant
Cleaning help which used to be very cheap has now become very expensive,but brazilians are just used to it so no one is giving it up soon.

amother

Tue, Jul 15 2014, 9:13 am

just to add--there is no goverment aid whatsoever. You dont have a job/money etc you starve.

amother

Tue, Jul 15 2014, 9:18 am

amother wrote:

My mum just moved there, and she is not VERY rich, they're doing fine, depends where you buy and what you buy, at the market the prices are nothing compared to europe, yes kosher food is expensive, like everywhere. People can survive without cleaning help, noI also woukdn't move there, but if they're looking into south america already, sao paulo might be the best choice.

Ruchel

Tue, Jul 15 2014, 10:14 am

thanks ladies!! more??

amother

Tue, Jul 15 2014, 2:12 pm

I have to disagree with the amother that says that in Sao Paulo there is no infrastructure to help the poor. My friend got married there and neither she nor her husband had money, they helped with the catering for the wedding and the price they payed was really really low(like just to cover the actual cost), she got her wedding dress for free, they even helped them with furniture for their future house.

Anyway, in terms of tuition you can ask for a discount and in most cases they do help, and tuition there is NOT as high as in NY for example.

amother

Tue, Jul 15 2014, 2:18 pm

amother above, yes there USED to be a project to help pay for weddings. Unfortunately that has recently ended.
and to the amother above whose mother moved here. Does she have small children? A large family? all these make a difference. Just a married couple without children can make it. But if they are older health insurance is a FORTUNE for over sixties....Believe me everyone is complaining and some people have left for greener pastures....

Ruchel

Tue, Jul 15 2014, 2:21 pm

They're in their mid 30s, several girls and boys bh.

Ruchel

Tue, Jul 15 2014, 3:18 pm

Someone tells me there is a lot of alya from BA and SP due to insecurity?

yo'ma

Tue, Jul 15 2014, 4:53 pm

Ruchel wrote:

Someone tells me there is a lot of alya from BA and SP due to insecurity?

What's that?