Doctor and Rabbi Disagree (fasting)

amother

Tue, Jul 15 2014, 3:32 am

Rabbi Gabriel Zinnner in Boro park is very understanding when it comes to these problems before yom Kippur he has a Dr.with him answering calls.I can get his # .His shul is on 40st bet. 15&16

amother

Tue, Jul 15 2014, 6:02 am

I also have a illness that my doc says that while it is under control now with meds the moment I fast it will worsen (I have seen it in the past). my rav doesnt allow me to fast ever! besides yom kippur and there I he told me to take shiurim the whole time!!! so please find a rav who understands to listen to the person. we have many dayanim and rabbanim in my family and they always tell me - a good posek is someone who understands to consult a doctor and make a decision based on that. not to be "cleverer" then him!

freidasima

Tue, Jul 15 2014, 6:31 am

Huh? Your rav is nuts. I say it straight. Not "uneducated" not "not an expert" not "possibly mistaken.

NUTS.

See what happens when one asks rabbonim? Now you see why I don't ask shaylos? Learn the diinnim well, it's not rocket science. When a doctor says EAT then EAT. If it is YK the din is rather simple. We are a dor of weak and sick people. If there is any chance that you can become a chola sheyesh ba sakana then eat and drink. Start with shiurim and if that doesn't work or the doctor says that's not enough eat and drink whatever he tells you to do.

The doctor doesn't have to be JEwish, the doctor doesn't have to be frum. Tell him it's religious fast and a serious one and if he still says eat and drink normally and you have explained shiurim to him and he still says eat and drink normally then EAT AND DRINK NORMALLY.

I remember one YK pregnant and vomiting all day. the idea of shiurim was ludicrous. I would drink down whatever I could and vomit it up within two minutes. Food was a bad joke. In fact it was a bad joke my whole pregnancy which I ended much thinner than I began it. There was no need to ask a shayla, it was kind of obvious.

Besides 17 tamuz is a light fast. Just eat and drink normally.
Gevalt, the narishkeit that is used to try and make people feel guilty.

FranticFrummie

Tue, Jul 15 2014, 8:04 am

freidasima wrote:

Thank you! I like to think I can use my sechel, and my doctor is VERY good. I've been seeing the same woman for over 20 years, and she knows me better than just about anyone I know. She's extremely sensitive to religious topics, and I can tell her anything (thank G-d for confidentiality! embarrassed

)

For those who have suggested an IV, the hospitals here are already overcrowded with people having real emergencies, heat stroke, etc. They won't just give you one because you ask, and insurance won't cover it either. I'd honestly consider it if I were in NY and there were frum places set up for it, but out here there's nothing going on like that.

I totally forgot to mention that I need to eat at least 350 calories each time I take my twice daily medications, or else they won't absorb properly. When you have to take a pretty big handful of meds, it can take a long while to take one pill, one sip of water, one bite of protein bar - wait 9 minutes, and then repeat for each pill.

Talya

Tue, Jul 15 2014, 8:19 am

...

amother

Tue, Jul 15 2014, 8:31 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

The IV in NY is only on Yom Kippur. I don't say this proudly, but I haven't fasted (besides Yom Kippur) in years, since I was always pregnant/nursing/taking care of babies.

Ruchel

Tue, Jul 15 2014, 9:56 am

IV is something I've encountered only on Imamother. IV comes with its own dangers, you know. I don't know... please see a specialist rabbi! people got heterim for bigger fasts and smaller problems.

Barbara

Tue, Jul 15 2014, 10:01 am

You're way, way too important to your daughter, your husband, your friends, this world, and Hashem to take that kind of risk. Please give your daughter an extra special hug from me, and be sure to eat and drink.

Simple1

Tue, Jul 15 2014, 11:19 am

Is this a well accepted Rav who is experienced with shailos (as opposed to just anyone who looks a little knowledgable)? Something doesn't seem right, especially if it's not Tisha Bav or Yom Kippur. I always thought the other fasts are lenient when it comes to health.

Whatever you decided, hope you have it easy.

debsey

Tue, Jul 15 2014, 1:47 pm

When Dr. and Rav disagree, ask Rav to call Dr. before paskening[/I] Most experienced poskim will not rule unless they speak to a doctor directly. This doesn't sound very safe, and it sounds like a lack of communication between all parties. The Torah does NOT ask us to endanger our lives.

vintagebknyc

Tue, Jul 15 2014, 1:52 pm

deleted

ruby slippers

Tue, Jul 15 2014, 10:29 pm

I agree with debsey's comments. Best bet is to find a rav who has some knowledge of medicine or smart enough to admit that he needs to learn more and then have the doctor and rav talk to each other.

Chloe

Tue, Jul 15 2014, 10:59 pm

Don't tell me this is for 17 Tammuz which women are not even obligated.

animeme

Tue, Jul 15 2014, 11:06 pm

Why would women not be obligated in Shiv'a asar b'tamuz? We have a lot more outs than men, but not obligated at all?

And with what OP described, a man with the exact same condition would get the same psak. Minor fast, major health concern.

Orchid

Wed, Jul 16 2014, 12:24 am

Chloe wrote:

Don't tell me this is for 17 Tammuz which women are not even obligated.

Mishna brura says clearly women are obligated in all fasts as men are.

And just like men, can possibly get out of them if they are sick (preg and nursing = sick).

FranticFrummie

Wed, Jul 16 2014, 12:50 am

I'm specifically talking about the two BIG fasts. Those are the ones that worry me the most.

MaBelleVie

Wed, Jul 16 2014, 12:53 am

No rav can possibly pasken without speaking at length with your doctor first to gain an understanding of what the factors are.

ruth

Mon, Aug 04 2014, 3:41 am

[quote="LisaS"]It's actually common and quite natural to feel like you really really want to fast when you are told not to.

May you have a meaningful day![/quote] yeah, its called the "frummer yetzer hora" (ie the yetzer hora dressed in a frum clothing)

amother

Mon, Aug 04 2014, 9:58 am

Maybe you might consider what I'm doing--a full liquid fast. So I feel like I'm being deprived (rightly so for a fast day) by not ingesting food, but will have liquids and one protein drink to avoid fainting.

Is that a possibility for you? So no special treats, no yummy food, just what you need to get by?

It's supposed to be VERY hot this week; you don't want to end up in the ER as a result of dehydration (happened to me three weeks ago).

Amother b/c sharing health issues

ectomorph

Mon, Aug 04 2014, 10:15 am

Ask another Rav who talks to the doctor first.

You need to use common sense. If you were diabetic you wouldn't be allowed to fast, and certainly liver failure is dangerous enough that you shouldn't fast.