Pro-Russian terrorists shoot down plane: 295 people dead

Barbara

Fri, Jul 18 2014, 9:56 am

rachel91 wrote:

Sorry, but this looks to me like it could have been recorded anywhere, I don't even know who Strelkov is (so I certainly don't follow him on twitter).

Look, whoever did this, did a terrible thing. This is a horrific tragedy and focusing on politics now, won't help in any case.

How can you not focus on politics, when the entire situation is clearly political.

See http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/18/.....hp_t1 for CNN's report; http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07.....?_r=0 for NY Times.

From what I've seen and read, the US has surveillance satellite data that shows that the plane was brought down by a missile. Because of where the plane was, they know it was not a shoulder-fired missile. And there are reports that the Russian government -- yeah, the GOVERNMENT -- recently provided just the type of equipment that was probably used to these terrorists.

And FTR, Putin hasn't denied that. Instead, he blamed the Ukraine, "This tragedy would not have happened if there was peace in the country, if military operations had not resumed in the southeast of Ukraine.” Sound like anyone else we know?

Dawling

Fri, Jul 18 2014, 10:16 am

Sequoia, were you reacting this way when the three boys were murdered? How about when the ceaseless rockets are being fired on your own brothers and sisters in EY?
Did you suggest carpet bombing Gaza?
I'm sorry to say that reacting so strongly over the 295, who I'm guessing were mostly non Jews, on that plane, which is definitely sad and then attacking the other posters (like 91) who didn't share your sentiment is really a skewed perspective. Where is the sense of responsiblity for your own people?

If you channel your feelings towards davening and connection instead of anger and disconnection, the terrible tragedies might end sooner than later.

Hugs!

mummiedearest

Fri, Jul 18 2014, 10:23 am

Dawling wrote:

dawling, this wasn't a nice post. I have always seen sequoia to be sensitive to ANYONE'S death. it is rather nasty of you to suggest that she didn't care about the three boys or jews under fire in Israel. and honestly, mentioning that you guess most of the 295 were non-jews is not making you look very nice.

oh, and no one wants to be preached to. don't tell anyone where to channel their feelings unless they ask for advice.

Barbara

Fri, Jul 18 2014, 10:24 am

Dawling wrote:

Yes, she did react this way when the 3 boys were kidnapped and murdered, and to the attacks in Israel. Of course, the people in Israel are her proverbial brothers and sisters. There are people in the Ukraine who are her actual family and friends.

But might I respectfully suggest that maybe if you channeled your feelings towards davening and connection instead of attacking someone who did nothing more than express sorrow and outrage at a horrific act of terrorism that killed hundreds of people, maybe the tragedies might end sooner.

Barbara

Fri, Jul 18 2014, 10:26 am

mummiedearest wrote:

I really hate when I take the time to write something, only to find that someone else said what I actually SHOULD have said (as opposed to what I did say), and said it more eloquently.

IOW, what she said.

mummiedearest

Fri, Jul 18 2014, 10:28 am

Barbara wrote:

funny, I liked your "respectful suggestion" better than my post. I guess we're even.

PinkFridge

Fri, Jul 18 2014, 10:50 am

Over the last few weeks I've come to realize what a sensitive soul Sequoia has. That she has personal ties to the region must only deepen her sadness.
We've spoken about being able to multitask, as in being able to feel for our people while harboring some sadness for our enemies. Now of course with the escalation, there is less and less mental headspace.
But this is entirely different. Throughout our history, we've retained our humanity by being able to feel empathetic and sympathetic to people who deserve it even while we're suffering.
So if nothing else, I hug every one of Sequoia's posts because she's in pain
As for me?
I fear for the world if there are people with such weapons who can fire without taking proper precautions. (Leaving aside the appropriateness of their firing had it been the plane they thought. Then at least it would have been a local fight.)
I feel sad for the loss of innocent civilians, including a significant number of people who were trying to help the world. If AIDs isn't high up on your list of priorities I understand. But basic awareness is on my radar. Google Elizabeth Glaser, a"h.

Dawling

Fri, Jul 18 2014, 10:57 am

I was asking how she was reacting to the incidents in EY, not accusing. Good, if she did, then she did.
Secondly, I wasn't aware that her actual family was affected, which definitely changes the story. Sorry.
Lastly, I wasn't attacking her being since I don't know who she is. She might very well be a sensitive soul. I was commenting on her response to this particular incident.
There are so many people in pain in EY right now. Perhaps I was being too impulsive rather than too sensitive.
Apologies again.

PinkFridge

Fri, Jul 18 2014, 11:00 am

Dawling wrote:

The Jewish way is for the person most affected to be the one to accept the apologies, so I can't apologize for her. But I think you explained well and were gracious, so hat's off figuratively. Welcome. You'll get the hang of it and get to know some of the cast better over time Wink

HonesttoGod

Fri, Jul 18 2014, 11:17 am

Dawling wrote:

Wow really?
What is wrong with people that they have a mentality of "oh they were not Jewish it is ok".
FYI there was an ex-IDF soldier on that plane heading home to Australia. This is a very popular flight with people heading to Australia, on vacation, you name it. It was 298 INNOCENT people. Jewish, muslim, canadian or reform. Does it really make a difference?

And especially when it is connected to someones hometown it hurts way more. Whoever they are. So you think sequoia wasn't happy when the 3 boys were killed? Wait did she say that anywhere? Never mind that, did you even read half her posts before bullying her?

Get your head out of your small box and realize a terrible tragedy just shook the world. the world. Not only Russians or non jews or people from the Netherlands.

mummiedearest

Fri, Jul 18 2014, 11:40 am

Dawling wrote:

really? why on earth were you asking? that has how much to do with this thread?

and you should have been aware that her actual family was affected. did you read the thread?

and the advice was out of line, regardless of your intentions.

monseychick

Fri, Jul 18 2014, 12:37 pm

Dawling wrote:

Bingo!!! Ding Ding Ding

Did someone just say Shwarner Goodman

This isnt meant against anyone in particular, it justt smells like S&G

PinkFridge

Fri, Jul 18 2014, 1:10 pm

monseychick wrote:

Bingo!!! Ding Ding Ding

Did someone just say Shwarner Goodman

This isnt meant against anyone in particular, it justt smells like S&G

I just googled Shwarner Goodman and came up with Shwerner and Goodman, MI, 1964. If you don't want to spell things out, can you PM me? I can't figure this out.

sequoia

Fri, Jul 18 2014, 1:58 pm

I am an American Ukrainian Jew. All these parts of my identity are important to me. None is more important than the rest.

Thank you to everyone who expressed sympathy.

To recap: there were 100 AIDS researchers on board
83 children and infants
At LEAST 1 Jew (former IDF soldier), probably many more

Nor will I feel shame for loving my homeland where I was born. Never.

And if you KNEW what I felt when I found out those boys were murdered...

It's not a contest. We must all love each other.