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Was This Rude? Or a misunderstanding?



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amother


 

Post Mon, Jul 28 2014, 2:56 am
I had a girlfriend stay with me for Shabbot who is from out of town, and she asked if she could have her cousins over for lunch. I said sure, and I called them and told them "lunch will be at 12:30," and sent them an e-mail with directions confirming lunch would be 12:30.

When I got back from shul at 12:15, I saw the couple waiting at the front door of my building seeming VERY upset - they told me they'd been waiting since 11:45, that they were very hot and demanded water! (No asking, no please or thank you, just "water.") They asked casually which shul I'd gone to (there are several in the area, including Hasidish shuls that don't get over till 12:30 and after), and when I said it's name, they said, "That shul gets over at 11:45." I said, "Yes, but I was talking with friends at kiddish and afterwards and wasn't expecting you." They still seemed huffy and didn't seem to understand that I wouldn't be expecting them at 11:45!

They then said that they had been knocking, and my friend apologized PROFUSELY that didn't answer the door when she heard them knocking because she wasn't expecting anyone and we've been getting A LOT Of missionaries in my area. She kept apologizing and beating herself up about this. I didn't understand this at all, and thought they were being rude (but didn't say anything). When I asked her if they were normally "like that," she told me that they were probably confused since I had said lunch was at 12:30 and wanted to get there early, she said they were probably cranky from the heat. Who likes an early guest?! And who gets somewhere 45 minutes early during the hottest month of the year and doesn't think that it might be uncomfortable?

Am I missing something? Is it okay to come to people's houses 45 minutes early and expect them to be there, and I'm just overly sensitive? Or should I have specified, "come at 12:30" and not "lunch will be at 12:30." They left without so much as a thank you for lunch...
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 28 2014, 3:08 am
It was strange that they came so early, esp when you told them 2x that lunch was at 12:30. Are these shul-goers? Maybe they didn't understand the routine of going to shul, talking with friends at Kiddush. Maybe, as you said, they thought 12:30 is when people start eating, so they should arrive earlier so they can chat/help first. I can see how someone not used to Shabbat routines might think it's like a dinner party invitation, where you sit and chat first and they proceed to the table to eat.

But it was also very odd that your friend didn't open the door for them. It's no fun being stuck outside in nice clothing when it's very hot out.
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amother


 

Post Mon, Jul 28 2014, 3:35 am
They're both people who were raised frum and go to the local yekke shul (I have no idea how frequently they actually go there, but they mentioned that they're members and go for chagim).

I think my friend was probably sleeping but was too embarassed to admit she was sleeping past 11:30..
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Jewishmom8




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 28 2014, 4:20 am
I think its very rude. you told them what time to come.
also why should your friend have to open the door?
No one ever has to open thier door to thier home if they don't want to. its nobody's business what she was doing at all.
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Barbara




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 28 2014, 4:38 am
Jewishmom8 wrote:
I think its very rude. you told them what time to come.
also why should your friend have to open the door?
No one ever has to open thier door to thier home if they don't want to. its nobody's business what she was doing at all.


Actually, she told them what time lunch would be. I think that's reasonably interpreted as "lunch will be served then, be there or we will start without you, and you will miss kiddush." Meaning you should arrive 10 to 15 minutes earlier, to help with whatever needs to be done.

It was odd to arrive much earlier than that. Still stranger to ask what shul you attend and comment on when it ends. And strangest still that your guest, knowing her cousins were coming, didn't bother to answer the door. Don't you have a peephole?
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imasinger




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 28 2014, 6:09 am
You did nothing wrong, except maybe to rely on your friend to handle the communication. Had you spoken with them directly, there might have been less confusion. But that's a minor way to improve things. They were very rude.

We always eat late, because it's a mile walk from where DH likes to go on Shabbos, and he loves to stay and shmooze for a long time at kiddush.

I tell guests the time we will start, and ask where they will be davening. If I know they will get out a long time before we return, I ask them what they would like to do and arrange accordingly.

Here are some of the ways they were out of line. It is rude to yell at your hosts. It is rude to demand water rather than say please. It is rude not to accept an apology. It is rude to grill them on where they daven and tell them what time they ought to have been back. It is rude not to thank your hosts. I suggest being d"lz and assuming that they behaved this way because something troubling was going on in their lives. But I would not be inclined to invite such guests again.
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Mama Bear




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 28 2014, 9:25 am
The word 'yekke' totally explains their behavior. They are very prompt people and were confused by your 'lateness.' however, they shoudlve been more polite.
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mummiedearest




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 28 2014, 9:36 am
Mama Bear wrote:
The word 'yekke' totally explains their behavior. They are very prompt people and were confused by your 'lateness.' however, they shoudlve been more polite.


that is untrue. yekkes are punctual, not 45 minutes early. it is rude to assume that one is available to entertain guests 45 minutes prior to the stated time. it sounds like the guests assumed someone was going to be home anyway and figured they might as well make themselves at home. and yes, their behavior was rude. not yekke, rude.
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