Fasting For Am Yisrael

debsey

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 7:03 pm

RachelLA wrote:

My Rabbi is Rabbi Amnon Yitchak, שהוא גם צדיק (who is also a tzaddik).

Did you ask him a personal shayla? I mean, it seems to me that the rules of the Torah are "vi"chay ba'hem" - and I never heard of a mother or woman of childbearing years taking something like this on.
Did you ask for a PERSONAL psak, or are you just copying his example? Because he might say something very surprising to you, if you asked. I'd ask before doing this.
Your intentions are admirable, and I wish your prayers success in shamayim, but ASK a shayla before doing something this extreme.

PinkFridge

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 7:11 pm

I've heard this said that in these situations it's good to do less, e.g. don't go for the second piece of cake, reserve some pleasure and think of the soldiers and everyone experiencing this first hand. As Rabbi Simcha Bunim Cohen said, his Shabbos Nachamu plans are to be in E"Y but if Moshiach doesn't come he'll be staying in Lakewood. Similarly, and this was maybe 20 years, I remember a JO article mentioning a story of someone in the US who asked his rav if it was appropriate to go on vacation in the summer in light of the tzaros in E"Y and the rav said, if you're sensitive enough to ask the question, then you should stay home.

I should mention that Rabbi S. B. Cohen didn't say don't take time off, go on some vacation, etc. But he stressed doing less, not going overboard in the post Three Weeks period.

And another story: when Rav Hutner zt"l returned to the US after the 1970 hijacking Rav Moshe zt"l went to the airport to greet him and someone noticed how pained he was. He pointed to the band that had come to welcome Rav Hutner and said that as long as there are still hostages things should be low key, or something to that effect.

In light of Rabbi Cohen's stressing some "doing less" but not in excess, and the concept of doing something to be nosei b'ol chaveiro, we have a precedent of taking some action. I don't think fasting is advisable, not for the general populace, and think that most people can come up with something on their own. But you can be sure that rabbanim and rebbetzins all over would welcome such conversation from their members for anyone who wants someone to bounce things off of.

RachelLA

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 8:19 pm

I don't have a lot of time to type, so this is going to be short.

mdoif, watch the link and please don't make statements that end up sounding like facts.
Fasting is for anyone who is able-bodied, not just men. If women can do it AND function, then more power to them. It is intended for anyone who is be-tzarot.

I know many people in Israel and a few in America who have fasted 40 days. Everyone lived and functioned during and after. (Most of them were from Israel though. I only know of 4 people that fasted in america) For the women who quoted the stories about doing less (sorry, don't remember your SN), yes, you are supposed to "take away a little bit of your fun" so to speak, but if you are able to, you can also fast.

I'm not forcing anyone to do it. And I'm certainly not suggesting you to do it if you can't physically, mentally, etc. I was just putting it out there and wanted to see if anyone wanted to join me. I see the answer is no and that is A-okay. Smile

Have a great night everyone.

Scrabble123

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 8:38 pm

While it is a meaningful gesture, what makes you think that fasting is the appropriate thing to do? If a Tzadik fasted with groups of people and saw nissim, isn't it possibly because of the koach of a Tzadik? I wouldn't begin to think that I possess the same kochos as a gadol. (I don't want to keep you from doing this, but I want you to first discuss it with a both a Rav and another intelligent person because it is a a serious commitment which I do know if women/ people in 2014 should be engaging in under regular circumstances).

I guess saying tehillim or doing another mitzvah doesn't speak to you?

RachelLA

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 11:28 pm

Scrabble123 wrote:

Of course it was possible because of the koach of a tzaddik, but I've done this before with a few family members for another cause and we saw nissim (for the specific situation we were fasting for). It is mentioned in tehillim (I believe perek Lamed Hey, need to double check though). And G-d knows I'm just a tiny person, but there is more koach when it is more people doing it, which is why I posted on here.

And these aren't necessarily "regular" circumstances. Israel is in a crisis. And if Israel is, then by default so is Am Yisrael. Living in America, you sort of get insulated to the extremeness of it. We don't have here what is going on in Europe for example.

And I do say tehillim and I do other mitzvot. This isn't an end all, be all. It's just an extra measure.

RachelLA

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 11:39 pm

And just to clarify. This isn't a "meaningful gesture." This is something that has a lot more koach then "meaningful gestures".

The Baba Sali used to fast from motzei Shabbat to Erev Shabbat from the age of 13.

And no, I'm not comparing myself to him G-d forbid, just stating that fasting isn't a "meaningful gesture."

On a separate note: I do know though (I've heard Rabbi Amnon Yitzchak recommend this to so many men and women over the years) -- and this is for anyone who is going through a crisis like cancer, knows someone going through something horrible, someone who is having extreme money difficulties-- to read Sha'arei Tshuva from Rabbi Yonah for 30 minutes a day. [For Women] To do this for 30 days, every day. You can't miss a day otherwise you need to start over.

And for Men to do 2 hours of Torah straight, without talking (ta'anit dibbur). Torah study meaning studying anything part of the tanach. Also for 30 days without missing a day.

These 2 things also have extreme koach ba'shamayim according to Rabbi Amnon Yitzchak. I can attach a link if anyone wants to see. Have to find them first though. . .

pumpernickle

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 11:45 pm

A yiddisha mama has to have koach. With doing our role in being there for our husbands and children we are helping raise generations of torah jews. Imho when fasting one cannot have the patience and strengths to be there 100%. Thus, I will eat and daven and hope that my duties as a yiddishe mamma and aishes chayil will be as powerful as a fast. Or maybe more? Good luck though and may we all be zoche to poel yeshuos in whichever way we daven for it.

FranticFrummie

Wed, Jul 30 2014, 12:33 am

Just my opinion here!

First of all, asking a shaila wouldn't hurt. IMHO, if you have done this before, know what you are doing, and are a healthy person, then I don't see a problem with it. Fasting can be a powerful way of focusing your tefillos.

OP will not be going on a hunger strike, she'll be eating at night! Millions of Muslims do this every single year, and don't come out any worse for wear (l'havdil).

Besides, it can be safer for a woman with a little extra weight to fast than it can for a very skinny man. Women naturally carry more body fat and have more stored in reserves for emergencies.

If anyone decides to take on a prolonged fast, just do it BLI NEDER and listen to your doctor. It's basic common sense.

Scrabble123

Wed, Jul 30 2014, 10:02 am

RachelLA wrote:

I agree that people fasting for klal yisroel is much more than a "meaningful gesture." I was simply stating that an individual deciding that on their own [and not having a bracha from a Rov] is a meaningful gesture. Fasting is a serious thing for someone to take upon themselves, especially a woman, even if she is physically capable of doing so.

You said that you have done this in the past and seen great results, which makes me feel differently about your choice. I would still tell you to go to your Rav to just make sure and get a bracha, but it seems like this is someone that you feel you have both the spiritual and physical kochos to accomplish.

Hatzlacha.

PinkFridge

Wed, Jul 30 2014, 10:42 am

I think that all of us would do well to find some avodah to work on and grow. I don't think there's a OSFA (one size fits all) suggestion. I'm sure that there are kehillos, shuls, etc. that are developing their own initiatives, e.g a shul working on talking a shul, and when there is a group working together like this they can be mechazek each other. And it's energizing to be part of a group doing something big.

RachelLA, I'm amazed that you know many people who've done this. I've participated in special 40 day groups, like the Chida Tehillim, but never fasting. I've really never heard it suggested for the masses, just yechidim who've taken it on.

Ruchel

Wed, Jul 30 2014, 10:43 am

pumpernickle wrote:

Yup. That's why (bh) many heimishe and chassidishe (and others) kehilot let the women get away with minor fasts, even.

We don't add a fast (without being a gadol or asking one).

Also a man isn't a woman, he won't lose his period (sorry) if he doesn't eat, he doesn't get pregnant, birthe, nurse. Sorry.

Do taanit dibbur (not on your family's chesboin). Give tzadaka. All this is considered replacement for a fast. Learn. Do tehilim. I started reading tehilim when the war started, then doubled them when it got bad (before the heat started and I had cluster migraines and stopped, tbh).

But again, fast doesn't speak to me. My family doesn't like fasts for women. When I fast I don't daven, I don't repent, I get resentful to be sick in bed with a migraine.

MaBelleVie

Wed, Jul 30 2014, 10:53 am

Here's the thing. It's one thing for an individual to decide to take on something like this (although I strongly believe that the average person should not be doing so without personal rabbinic guidance). It's totally different to come onto a forum and suggest this as a group activity. This has not been suggested by any gedolim, and until it is, it's inappropriate to create a mass movement out of it.

PinkFridge

Wed, Jul 30 2014, 11:06 am

MaBelleVie wrote:

ITA.

RachelLA

Wed, Jul 30 2014, 12:31 pm

I am not creating a mass movement. If you can't do it or you'll get sick then this isn't for you. I'm not forcing it or suggesting that people who can't do it, find the koach and do. So please stop throwing stones at this.

For the woman who said this is the first time she has heard of-- sorry, don't remember your SN--I believe there are numerous clips on youtube from different lectures that Rabbi Amnon Yitzchak gave.

The last fast was when the 3 boys went missing. Numerous people fasted for the children to return safely home (of course when people started or signed up no one knew that they had been killed within 5 minutes of being captured). The rabbi stated that the people who started fasting could either break it with Hatarat Nedarim, or continue and complete the 40 days for Am Yisrael and Am HaYehudi, or they could continue and complete it for Chatat Ne'urim.

I am not saying to fast if it comes at the expense of something. If that is the case, definitely DON"T fast. I wouldn't either, if it came at the expense of myself or my family. But at this point in my life, I am fortunate that it does not. So please stop acting like I am trying to start this mass movement of I don't know what.

There was also a woman who had cancer in Israel and many people fasted for her.
I'm getting tired of defending it. Some people are acting like I have copied a Muslim tradition and am anorexic. IF it isn't for you, fine.

But STOP making it out to be something "weird". And this is to the posters that are doing so. I know many people aren't.

PinkFridge

Wed, Jul 30 2014, 12:40 pm

RachelLA wrote:

There was also a woman who had cancer in Israel and many people fasted for her.
I'm getting tired of defending it. Some people are acting like I have copied a Muslim tradition and am anorexic. IF it isn't for you, fine.

But STOP making it out to be something "weird". And this is to the posters that are doing so. I know many people aren't.

Fasting is not weird. We've all heard of many great people who've fasted, say on Mondays and Thursdays long term, or other schedules. But of all the 40 day things I've heard of geared to the hamon am, I've never heard of fasting and I would NEVER take it on myself without direct, constant hadracha from a rav. That's all.

RachelLA

Wed, Jul 30 2014, 1:42 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

Okay. That's perfectly valid. I have whom to call when I have questions or little hang-ups.