Why is this ok with everyone??? (Double buckling)

Basya

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 12:07 am

I'm so beside myself I cannot sleep. As of right now, I'm not going to give background information as to what occurred - depending on how this thread develops I might share more information.

Here is the question-

Why are people fine with letting kids "double buckle", not have kids who belong in boosters (according to the law) sitting in boosters - I'm not even getting into those that let their kids jump around while they are driving - without being buckled at all. AND NO - I'm not going to be dan lkaf zechus and say maybe they were just driving down the block- seatbelts and safety rules are applicable even when driving the car from the driveway to the garage!

Now here is the next question -

Suppose that you are like me - a fanatically (compared to the majority of ppl that I know) safety conscious person (that makes her 4 year old sit in a 5 point harness car seat with a weight limit to 100lbs, and 6 year old sit in a high back booster - every single time they are in the car), would you allow your child into someone else's car with their promise that YOUR child will be in an approved (by you) booster, buckled in?

heidi

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 12:46 am

I would. I double buckle my kids or those of neighbors, (with their permission of course) to go a short distance, like to a birthday party in the neighborhood, or carpool 1/2 a mile away.
However, I would never do it without the mother's permission. And whichever kid is not allowed to is always buckled in his own seatbelt.
In fact, last week I took a friend of my son home, a three block ride but it was boiling hot. I put him in the booster and my son in the seat belt. When he got out my son got in the booster.
So you might not agree with my methods, but please don't disparage my ethics. If you ask me not to double buckle your kids, I won't.

groisamomma

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 12:54 am

heidi wrote:

I'm like this now that my kids are a little older. When they were little car seats were non-negotiable but for short distances I find myself double buckling once in a while.

amother

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 1:18 am

Because we don't have a big enough car. Because we put thousands into a used 8 passenger minivan so we would not have to double buckle but it broke down a few months after we bought it and the cost to repair was astronomical. Because we needed a vehicle so we bought a cheaper minivan, but it only has 7 seats.

And why do I have kids I can't afford? Well, as I said, we WERE able to afford the van to fit them - just not able to repair it (almost as much as it cost to buy) or replace it with another. (We're still paying off that van, BTW.)

Not because I don't know better. Not because I don't care. It hurts to do it, but it hurt much more when we were stuck at home for weeks. There is not a decent park in walking distance. The Jewish day camp is a highway drive away. There are no local friends.

Why are some kids not in boosters? Because we lent some to a friend and never got them back. We cannot afford to replace them. And yes, I know about priorities in money. Diapers and food come first. I am truly sorry. And you would keep your kids home from camp to be able to afford the boosters (which will help the one child who should be in a booster and is not double-buckled; you can't double buckle a booster obviously).

If you want to donate an 8-passenger van, or better a 12-passenger van with some safety features, I would be thrilled.

In the meantime, please don't judge me.

I know it's not safe, but it wasn't a societal crime when I was a child. We were double buckled all the time, and nobody thought twice. Now I do it regretfully, and I am tarred and feathered for it.

And not only would I respect someone's wish not to double buckle their child, I would NEVER double buckle someone else's child unless that parent was so desperate for me to take their child that THEY asked me to.

cinnamon

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 2:29 am

Basya wrote:

Can someone please explain why they are ok with double buckling? it's against the law and dangerous to boot! don't tell me "nothing's gonna happen" or the short drive excuse. how would u live with yourself if something did???

why why why are people so ok with this??????

Every time you leave the house (or even when you stay in) you make safety decisions.

Do I force my two year old to stay strapped in his carriage and deal with a screaming toddler all the way home or do I let him walk next to me even though he can theoretically jump into the street?

Do I let my kids in the pool even though it is dangerous?

Do I let the seven year old go the store on her own? Do I let the five year old climb up the stairs to his friend alone?

And living in Israel these passed few weeks I had to decide whether or not to let my kids out of the house even though there might be a siren any minute.

As mothers we have to make hard decisions taking into account our reality. Is double buckling better or worst then walking to camp and crossing busy streets with four kids under seven?

It is impossible and unhealthy to keep your kids 100% safe all the time. There was a car accident two years ago where the whole family was killed except for one kid who didn't have her seatbelt on and was throne out of the car.
So yah you have to be careful and you have to be safe but being fanatical about anything is not good.

imasinger

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 6:31 am

Wow, look how defensive some of these responses are!

No, letting kids be unbuckled altogether, or not in carseats or boosters as mandated by both law and safety, -- or double buckled, is not right.

I have once in a while let kids doube buckle, but only when they were older (over 10) and I couldn't plan in advance. Like discovering at the last minute that a kid had no other way to be taken home. And I felt really bad about it and drove extra carefully.

It is not in the same category as letting a 2 year old walk next to you or a 5 year old walk up the stairs to a friend's house.

It is maybe in the same category as letting non swimmers into a pool with no adult. Except that nobody has to go swimming, but families do have to drive kids from on place to another.

Please don't lightly say, "I just can't afford to keep my kids safe, you pay for it." If anyone really, truly is that hard up, then okay. (And plan on using public transportation, with all its inconvenience, when possible).

But one would hope all of us would treat having safe transportation as important as, say, affording dayschool, and go looking for deals or loans, investing as much time and effort as possible, until all avenues have been exhausted. For every one story about an unbuckled kid being the only survivor of a crash, I'll show you 50 where the unbuckled child was killed or severely hurt.

Okay, rant over.

OP, given that you have strong feelings about this, I think you will have to decide two things -- how much you trust the driver to deal with your carseat, and how likely or unlikely your DC is to be influenced by the sight of other kids who are freer in a car than her. Weigh that against what your other options may be, and decide accordingly.

Last edited by imasinger on Tue, Jul 29 2014, 7:54 am; edited 1 time in total

kakky

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 6:36 am

I dont see the relevance to how I buckle my kids. If you asked me to do something and I agreed then why wouldnt you let me take your kid in my car buckled into car seat/booster.

The question as I understand it Do You Trust that Mom? (Not does she love my kid more than her own).

I have done plenty of things for other people that I dont agree with (Chumrot mostly) but if someone asked and I agreed, it should be fine and people trust me to do it.

Raisin

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 7:32 am

amother wrote:

Why don't you ask around if anyone has extra boosters? Many people have spares they would be happy to let you have. (assuming getting them back from your friend is impossible. And in future don't lend out stuff you might need back at some point if you can't afford to replace them. Your kids safety takes priority over being nice)

MaBelleVie

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 7:41 am

Car accidents are the leading cause of cause for children. What that means to me is that being in a car is the riskiest activity possible, while still considered responsible parenting. With that in mind, I try to do everything in my power to reduce that risk by making use of known statistics and resulting safety recommendations. It isn't just some helicopter mothering choice I made to go crazy about car safety; it's just logical to me that if the likeliest way for a child to die involves cars, I should be mitigating that risk however I can.

MaBelleVie

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 7:51 am

amother wrote:

Maybe because I think the weight limit is rediculous. I wasn't 100 lbs until I was in seminary....
Who exactly is having 6-8 kids all in boosters?
Who is making a skinny 10-12 yr old sit in a booster?!
Not me sorry. They use a seat belt

Did someone tell you kids should be in boosters until 100 lbs? Nope, not at all. They should be in boosters until they fit the belt properly and puberty begins, which changes their bone structure and makes the belt safer even if they're still small. Car seat belts were never tested on 10 year olds, who have completely different body makeups than teens or adults, and therefore there is no reason to believe they are safe (and based on the damages they can cause in accidents, many reasons to believe they are not safe).

Everyone from twenty years ago is ok today right? Except the ones who aren't here because they died.