Why is this ok with everyone??? (Double buckling)

gold21

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 2:21 pm

I don't get involved in the way other parents raise their kids (unless I suspected abuse chas vesholom).

I would definitely want my kids to be in booster seats, but I have no opinion on other moms who sometimes double buckle.

There is no guaranteed formula to raising healthy happy kids. I do what I believe and hope I'm doing a good job.

Last edited by gold21 on Tue, Jul 29 2014, 2:22 pm; edited 1 time in total

MaBelleVie

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 2:22 pm

In crash tests, passengers who were double buckled were flung against one another and their heads collided with enough force to cause serious injury or death.

Also, on the topic sort of... Passengers riding on laps of adults were crushed with enough force to seriously injured or kill them.

I don't know stats on real life situations. However, again, car accidents is the leading cause of accidental death for all children. These aren't remote chances.

marina

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 2:23 pm

Say you had to pick one: everybody in the world stops speeding if they are driving with childen, or everybody in the world stops double buckling. Which would you choose?

And yes, if you want to choose both, choose both. But please be sure to start a horrified thread about someone going over the limit, even 5 miles on the highway. Because that's also illegal and dangerous.

marina

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 2:24 pm

MaBelleVie wrote:

I know, I tried to look up the double-buckling stats for deaths and injuries and couldn't find any.

Barbara

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 2:25 pm

marina wrote:

Quote:

I don't jaywalk, either. And I have refused to allow my child in cars with people who speed, or who aren't very good drivers.

But honestly, your attempts at equivalency are absurd.

"AHA! Once, in 2012, you didn't feel like rinsing the can or tomato sauce, so you threw it in the trash instead of recycling! Same thing as me driving with kids not safely restrained."

And I challenge YOU to find an interpretation of child restraint laws that allows you to use a single seat belt for two children, since you're so fired up about the use of "illegal."

I am proud of you that you don't speed or jaywalk. That is excellent. I hope we can all aspire to your standards.

And what? Rinsing tomato sauce is like speeding? Is that your analogy here? Because speeding, I'm pretty sure, kills way more kids than double-buckling. Just a guess.

And don't challenge me to anything. Just agree that using the term "illegal" is somewhat irresponsible if you don't actually know that something is illegal.

I know that every state in the US has a law requiring proper restraint of children. You want to prove that double buckling is legal? Enjoy yourself. We now know its illegal in Ohio; enjoy your research on the other 49 states. I'm sure that when you're done, you'll have the integrity to admit that I am right.

marina

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 2:35 pm

If I did that research, which I won't, I would certainly have the integrity to admit you were right, if all 49 states prohibited double buckling.

I hope that you eventually have the integrity to admit it is wise to search and see if something is illegal in all 50 states, before declaring it to be illegal in the US.

Barbara

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 2:43 pm

marina wrote:

I searched and found that all 50 states require that children be properly restrained, in a car seat, booster, or adult seat belt depending upon age and size. e.g., http://www.ghsa.org/html/state......html I cannot imagine that buckling two children in the same seat belt, which is universally considered to be unsafe, would be considered appropriate under any of those laws.

marina

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 2:55 pm

Alabama's law says nothing about double buckling or manufacturer's recommendations. http://www.legislature.state.a.....2.htm

That's just the first one.

Whatever, I have to go back to work.

My point is not very controversial here. It could be that all 50 states explicitly prohibit double-buckling. But it is not right to declare this to be the case without researching it.

That is all.

PS- the above statute and my posting of it should IN NO WAY be interpreted as a legal opinion about the safety or legality of double-buckling in Alabama or anywhere else, or as any other comment on Alabama laws. I am not authorized to practice in Alabama.

Barbara

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 3:00 pm

marina wrote:

Actually, it does. It requires restraint, "by properly using an aftermarket or integrated child passenger restraint system meeting applicable federal motor vehicle safety standards and the requirements of subsection (b)."

imaima

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 3:04 pm

Basya wrote:

I'm so beside myself I cannot sleep. As of right now, I'm not going to give background information as to what occurred - depending on how this thread develops I might share more information.

Here is the question-

Why are people fine with letting kids "double buckle", not have kids who belong in boosters (according to the law) sitting in boosters - I'm not even getting into those that let their kids jump around while they are driving - without being buckled at all. AND NO - I'm not going to be dan lkaf zechus and say maybe they were just driving down the block- seatbelts and safety rules are applicable even when driving the car from the driveway to the garage!

Now here is the next question -

Suppose that you are like me - a fanatically (compared to the majority of ppl that I know) safety conscious person (that makes her 4 year old sit in a 5 point harness car seat with a weight limit to 100lbs, and 6 year old sit in a high back booster - every single time they are in the car), would you allow your child into someone else's car with their promise that YOUR child will be in an approved (by you) booster, buckled in?

NO I wouldn't trust

marina

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 3:13 pm

Barbara wrote:

To criminally prosecute someone under this, you'd have to prove (beyond a reasonable doubt) that the term properly excludes double buckling as a matter of law. Good luck with that. You'd need some expert witnesses, etc. You may or may not succeed. Certainly there's not enough here to assume, without further research, that the court would find this to be illegal.

Further, let me take the time now to point out that allowing a child to be buckled with a shoulder belt behind her, like many kids try to get away with, would be just as illegal, in all these interpretations of the word "properly."

Della

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 3:34 pm

Quick google search says in Washington State using one seatbelt around two people...is a violation of the law.

THe lawyer in me couldn't resist:)

Personally, I have double buckled kids in the past. I'm more concerned about speeding, kids standing up in cars, texting or talking on the phone while driving or any other destracted driving behaviors. (Newly licensed teens driving carpool, anyone?)

I also get more outraged about people leaving babies in strollers outside of stores or in the front unattended, (dont get me started about not reporting child abusers or molesters) but I guess we all have our pet peeves.

Barbara

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 3:43 pm

marina wrote:

I wouldn't do that, either.

But let me ask the real question. Why is it OK with you to drive without your child being properly restrained? Do you think that the risk is low? Do you think that because other people do other things that potentially place their children at risk (and in the case of speeding, texting, etc, place your children at risk as well), its OK for you to do so as well?

marina

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 3:45 pm

MaBelleVie wrote:

I'm not a lawyer, but it seems to me that violating the restraint instructions in the vehicle manual would very clearly not be proper use.

Yes, and to me it seems that feeding your child exclusively junk food is child abuse or at least child neglect. But I cannot declare that feeding your child only junk food is illegal in the US, unless I have actually researched the law.

marina

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 3:51 pm

Barbara wrote:

Omg. IT IS NOT OKAY. I never said it was okay. I said that there is too much drama about it here and that we should do more research before terming it illegal.

There can be (and often is) much too much drama on this site about plenty of other not- okay things.

Orchid

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 4:05 pm

I didn't read 6 pages, but I'm going say this: YES, I would use that parent, as long as I trust she will not double buckle my kid. She might not care in general, but so long as I have faith she will abide by my wishes, that is good enough for me.

MaBelleVie

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 4:10 pm

marina wrote:

Really. Same thing to you. The only possible question is how to interpret "properly restrained." I am confident that no court would consider something a proper restraint if the vehicle manufacturer says in the manual that it's not.

33055

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 4:12 pm

marina wrote:

What about reckless driving? In NY it is a crime.

marina

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 4:15 pm

MaBelleVie wrote:

Jeez you have a lot of faith in the system