Why is this ok with everyone??? (Double buckling)

ValleyMom

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 1:20 pm

I'm an EC teacher so SAFETY is my number one priority.

In fact, a Mercedes sedan pulled up in the carpool lane during dismissal with FIVE adults in it and they expected me to jam two children in as well. I told them to go home, empty the car and come back to pick up the kids. They were livid, furious and raging but I simply closed the door and waved them on.

I then asked someone to take over and went straight to the headmaster and informed him what had happened. I was irate. I will NOT be responsible for a fatal injury because I allowed myself to be intimidated by a parent. Can you imagine an innocent child becoming a projectile through a windshield and laying dead in a pool of blood on the pavement? I will never allow myself into being bullied to do something I am NOT comfortable with.

Fast forward 10 years later, I was slowly backing out of a driveway of a home I had just started renting two days prior. It was one house from the corner... I was going maybe 2 miles an hour and I backed into a van that had come careening around the corner. Nobody was hurt BH (because EVERYONE was wearing appropriate seat belts) but, I was very frightened. It was a van with elderly passengers.

This happened at the bottom of my driveway.
Not two blocks away at a birthday party.
My DRIVEWAY ladies.

Just, something to think about.

MaBelleVie

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 1:24 pm

marina wrote:

Again, in order to be illegal, this sentence would actually have to be in the law. I hate to be nit picky but claiming something is illegal is really a big deal if it is not actually illegal. It would be like saying: Feeding your kids nothing but junk food is not only immoral, but it's also illegal.

It could be illegal in Op's state, I just don't know where she lives or where the exact law is for her state.

Again, depending on the state, there are specifications regarding following the car seat manual and/or the car manual. I didn't bring up illegal at all in this discussion, I'm just answering your question.

Barbara

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 1:24 pm

marina wrote:

Federal law? Cite plse.

You're an attorney, Marina. You know that its state law. I said "In the US," not "under federal law."

AFAIK, every state of the US (other than Florida and South Dakota) has a law that requires the use of booster seats to differing ages and sizes. (Florida and South Carolina both require car seats until age 5, by the way.) AFAIK, every state of the US requires that children be in seat belts even if not in a booster or child seat. If you think its such a wonderful idea that two children use a single seat belt, then I suggest that you research the legality of driving with two kids in the same seat belt, or find a court decision interpreting "properly restrained" to mean "two in a single seat belt."

marina

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 1:29 pm

Barbara wrote:

1. You wrote in the US- so I assumed that you are speaking for the entire country, in which case it would either have to be a federal law, or that you researched the law for each of the states. The second option seemed less likely than the first.

2. I'm not talking about booster seats. Double buckling is not necessarily with boosters and I have no idea how it would work with booster seats. When I say double buckling (and I believe I clarified this earlier), I mean two 9 year olds using one lap belt in the middle.

3. If you are claiming it is illegal, as you did, the burden is on you to find the law. It's not on me to prove it is legal. If something is not illegal, it is legal. Imagine if you went to court and argued that XYZ is against the law and when you were asked for the law, you said- no the burden is on you to prove that it is legal.

4. And finally, sheesh. I didn't say it was a great idea. It just bothers me when people claim everything they don't like is it illegal.

marina

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 1:34 pm

If you are all discussing double buckling to mean: skipping the booster seats and just buckling the kids together - then yes, in many states, if not all, skipping the booster would be against the law, as far as I know.

But then why is this thread about double buckling and not about just failing to use booster seats? It would be the same problem.

marina

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 1:35 pm

MaBelleVie wrote:

Okay, I was just addressing use of the term illegal. I'm sure there are some states with specifications about following the manual and in those states or others double buckling may, in fact, be illegal. Or not, depending on how the law is worded.

For example, what if the manual lays out how to use a seatbelt, but doesn't say anything about double buckling. Would double buckling be illegal if the manual didn't address it at all?

MaBelleVie

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 1:37 pm

marina wrote:

We did discuss booster use as well. Read Smile

dr. pepper

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 1:40 pm

amother wrote:

I don't double-buckle and I expect my carpools and friends to observe that rule, too. I won't say I've never double-buckled, though. I've done it in a few situations where I would have had to leave kids unsupervised otherwise. What makes me crazy are the mothers who go on and on about double-buckling and then I see them giving their 2-year-olds grapes or see their kids riding bikes without helmets. I seem to know a lot of mothers like that.

Oh my goodness! My pet peeve too!
I have a neighbor who went on and on about how she never uses an exa-saucer (which I use for about 20 minutes here and there for crazy times like bed or bath or supper time) because of how bad it is for the back and how they are involved in this brain association blah blah blah.
Her kids ride around like crazy across the street and back without lookking WITH NO HELMET ON ALL THE TIME!!!
Honestly, dh and I just laugh cuz it's so insane.

Whatever, I see everyone has their things of what they consider dangerous and makes them a "good" mom.....myself included.
I've definitely double bucked and I'm certainly not super strict on boosters past 5 for local rides. But no child of mine will ever ride without a helmet or a car without any seat belt. Bottom line, we've all got our things and it behooves us to always improve.
THanks for reminding me how unsafe double buckling is.

questioner

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 1:44 pm

amother wrote:

I believe the convertible is an Evenfllo Titan, and the boosters are similar to this: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Even.....70284 (got through insurance).

Car isn't here right now, so I can't check to confirm.

How do you get a booster seat through insurance? Do you mean health insurance? What insurance do you have?

Barbara

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 1:46 pm

marina wrote:

Too much drama here.

I sometimes double buckle kids (two non-booster seat kids in the middle with one long lap belt), but I always give the mother that option first. Like: Hello, Mrs. P. If you want your daughter to come to the trip in my car, please keep in mind, she will have to double buckle.

I also exceed the speed limit on occassion. Okay, every day, by about 5 miles.

I don't understand how double buckling with booster seats works. I've never heard of that.

Ohio has a secondary seat belt law, requiting that all children between the ages of 8 and 14 be in seat belts. (A child under the age of 8 who is not yet 4'9" must be in a booster or car seat.)

Quote:

(D) When any child who is at least eight years of age but not older than fifteen years of age, and who is not otherwise required by division (A), (B), or (C) of this section to be secured in a child restraint system or booster seat, is being transported in a motor vehicle, other than a taxicab or public safety vehicle as defined in section 4511.01 of the Revised Code, that is required by the United States department of transportation to be equipped with seat belts at the time of manufacture or assembly, the operator of the motor vehicle shall have the child properly restrained either in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions in a child restraint system that meets federal motor vehicle safety standards or in an occupant restraining device as defined in section 4513.263 of the Revised Code.

"Properly restrained."

Its "too much drama" for you until something happens. I know a few too many people whose families thought just like you, too much drama, its a short drive, it will be okay, and who will never walk again.

marina

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 2:05 pm

Quote:

Ohio has a secondary seat belt law, requiting that all children between the ages of 8 and 14 be in seat belts. (A child under the age of 8 who is not yet 4'9" must be in a booster or car seat.)

And all it says is "properly restrained in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions"- so still, in order to claim that double buckling is illegal, you'd have to find the manufacturer's instructions and make sure it says NO DOUBLE BUCKLING or ONLY ONE BELT PER PASSENGER or something like that.

It is entirely possible that that's what the instructions say. But don't throw out words like "illegal" without checking first. Thank you.

marina

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 2:07 pm

Yes, and it is entirely much too much drama about this issue. Speeding is actually very very dangerous, yet we don't really have these threads about speeding.

Raise your hand if you have never ever exceeded the speed limit. Which, by definition, would be illegal.

Barbara? Can I count on you to have never exceeded the speed limit?

MaBelleVie

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 2:09 pm

marina wrote:

Quote:

Ohio has a secondary seat belt law, requiting that all children between the ages of 8 and 14 be in seat belts. (A child under the age of 8 who is not yet 4'9" must be in a booster or car seat.)

My car manual is very very specific regarding double buckling and other forms of proper restraint. I'm assuming it's the same for almost all if not all vehicles.

marina

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 2:09 pm

Quote:

Its "too much drama" for you until something happens. I know a few too many people whose families thought just like you, too much drama, its a short drive, it will be okay, and who will never walk again.

Are you talking about double buckling or something else? You know families (plural) whose children cannot walk again because they were double-buckled? Please explain further. And don't talk about boosters, thx.

marina

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 2:14 pm

MaBelleVie wrote:

My car manual is very very specific regarding double buckling and other forms of proper restraint. I'm assuming it's the same for almost all if not all vehicles.

I just looked mine up! It is also very specific:

Quote:

Never let two children use the
same seat belt. If they do, they
could be very seriously injured in a
crash.

So I guess it would be illegal in my state. Thank you. 49 more to go before we can say double buckling is illegal everywhere.

Barbara

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 2:15 pm

marina wrote:

I don't jaywalk, either. And I have refused to allow my child in cars with people who speed, or who aren't very good drivers.

But honestly, your attempts at equivalency are absurd.

"AHA! Once, in 2012, you didn't feel like rinsing the can or tomato sauce, so you threw it in the trash instead of recycling! Same thing as me driving with kids not safely restrained."

And I challenge YOU to find an interpretation of child restraint laws that allows you to use a single seat belt for two children, since you're so fired up about the use of "illegal."

33055

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 2:18 pm

ValleyMom wrote:

50 kids a week in the US are killed by cars backing over them. I just read this statistic because a young child died in spring valley a few weeks ago.

marina

Tue, Jul 29 2014, 2:19 pm

Quote:

I am proud of you that you don't speed or jaywalk. That is excellent. I hope we can all aspire to your standards.

And what? Rinsing tomato sauce is like speeding? Is that your analogy here? Because speeding, I'm pretty sure, kills way more kids than double-buckling. Or failing to recycle. Just a guess.

And don't challenge me to anything. Just agree that using the term "illegal" is somewhat irresponsible if you don't actually know that something is illegal.