Is it possible to have a shomer negiya relationship?

amother

Wed, Jul 30 2014, 3:00 pm

From your own experiences or those of people you know
for a "frum" MO teen to have a shomer negiya relationship with a boyfriend/girlfriend.
I know you'll say - if you're frum you don't have a boyfriend/girlfriend, but that's not always true...

tichellady

Wed, Jul 30 2014, 3:08 pm

Of course it's possible. Is it realistic that they will never mess up? Not so much, but that doesn't mean they can't be shomer negiah 95% of the time. It depends on how important it is to them and if they keep the laws of yichud.

Rutabaga

Wed, Jul 30 2014, 3:09 pm

amother wrote:

Why did you put the word frum in quotes?

And, yes, it is possible, but both parties have to be committed to being shomer negiya.

Brownies

Wed, Jul 30 2014, 3:21 pm

amother wrote:

When you say teen, do you mean high school or college? I can see it more in college when people are more mature, not so much in high school. Definitely my high school friends who had boyfriends were not shomer negiah but obviously that doesn't speak for everyone in the same situation.

sourstix

Wed, Jul 30 2014, 3:26 pm

I thank hashem when I read these posts. bec I never had these problems as a teenager. I grew up and remember how my father would discipline my brother if he picked up a hand at me or sisters when we were teenagers. and tell them of the issur of "kreiva" thats what my father called it. and I am so greatful for that. it never ever occured to me to touch another boy. I guess I was a shy girl because I never saw my siblings do that and neither my friends families. I just feel for pp when they write about it. it must be so hard. I think the beauty of the type of family that I come from is that boys and girls dont mingle. and that puts a boundry that you dont need to define so many areas, and so many problems are avoided. I am so thankful for this type of upbringing I come from.

amother

Wed, Jul 30 2014, 3:30 pm

high school
I agree that by the time you get to college there's more of a maturity - and it's more marriage focused - whether or not getting married is on the immediate horizon, you can hold out if you know you'll be getting married at the end - maybe?

amother

Wed, Jul 30 2014, 3:37 pm

I dated my husband since high school and we got married in college. We were mostly shomer negiah but did mess up. We probably went a year without touching at all. It was very hard but the truth is I think that my friends who didn't date also had a hard time. It is hard to be celibate and not very natural for teenagers or adults. I hate when people say it is harder for guys than for girls! It was hard for both of us and to this day keeping niddah is much harder for me than my husband. Although I do find keeping niddah now to be much easier than shomer negiah before we were married. We have never messed up with niddah in our five years of marriage.

I assume you are not asking a hypothetical question and are trying to decide how to deal with a teenage child that wants to date. I am not sure what to advise you. I certainly don't regret dating my husband who I feel blessed to have found. That said, there are many high school couples that don't end up happily married.

Hope this helps. Let me know if you have more questions.

naturalmom5

Wed, Jul 30 2014, 4:53 pm

sourstix wrote:

I hear you , but the converse is that I am a BT who went to PS.
I always had boy friends as a teen. When I became frum , I was in awe of girls like you and very jealous
But now , many years later , I thank G-d for my experiences . All my friends and neighbors are all so neurotic and uncomfortable around men . Many of them needed therapy to relate to their husband . Some got divorced because of sx incompatibility
So it cuts both ways I guess

causemommysaid

Wed, Jul 30 2014, 5:04 pm

its not very likely that anyone, frum or not can have a shomer negia relationship for an extended time unless they take precautions to not be alone and to limit their time together.

is it possible? I guess anything is possible in theory. there are always exceptions to the rule.

MaBelleVie

Wed, Jul 30 2014, 5:09 pm

PAMOM wrote:

Definitely yes. I know several strict "shomer negiya girls" who met their boyfriends in college but whose parents made them wait 1-2 years to get married for different reasons.

Well, as far as you knew...

MaBelleVie

Wed, Jul 30 2014, 5:10 pm

naturalmom5 wrote:

And secular couples never have that issue?

amother

Wed, Jul 30 2014, 5:29 pm

I think it depends on the couple, and how often they see each other/what is the situation....and if they actually want to. (When I'm talking about opportunity - I.e. they live in a neighborhood where everyone knows them and live at home with their parents who have prying eyes vs. they have their own private dorm room).

I know a couple who dated for 6 years during high school and college - but were long distance - and had their first kiss in the yichud room. So, yes, it's possible! But, they are a VERY chashuv couple and didn't have much opportunity.

I would worry more about them both becoming frustrated, and esp. for the boy, turning to [filth] due to the frustration.

amother

Wed, Jul 30 2014, 5:31 pm

I didn't date as a teen, but I went out with DH for 10 months before getting engaged and then for another 5 months before getting married. In that time we went out frequently - at least twice a week for dinner and almost all day on Sundays when we went on more interesting excursions. We never once slipped up in remaining shomer negiya.

I had a roommate my freshman year of college when we had to live in dorms. She had a high school sweetheart - they had both gone to Yeshiva of Flatbush. He lived the floor below us. Every night at a specific time, he would come up to our floor so they could spend half an hour together no matter what else was going on. They would sit on the floor right outside our room, nearby each other but not touching, and talk about their day or whatever. It was really very sweet. Of course, I don't know what they did together outside of school, but I wouldn't be surprised if they remained shomer negiya.

I actually believe that it's easier to be completely shomer negiya than to allow hand holding and kissing and then drawing a line. It's much easier to push that line (think of the "bases") than to abstain completely. I think that's why we're more successful as a religion in curtailing premarital s-x than other religions that preach abstinence but don't have the gedarim that we do.

Amother because of private information.

Tablepoetry

Wed, Jul 30 2014, 5:49 pm

sourstix wrote:

I don't understand. Why didnt your father let your brother ever touch you? Arent brothers and sisters allowed to touch? Hug?
And why are you extrapolating from a brother-sister relationship to the dating world?