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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Preschoolers
2.5 year old extremely aggressive - need advice
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Shayla




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 31 2014, 11:28 am
MaBelleVie wrote:
Pediatricians are not trained in sensory processing, and they probably have minimal training in sleep disorders. The great doctors educate themselves, but unfortunately, for many doctors it's just out of their domain. Don't depend on your ped to guide your dd's treatment.


I have realized that my doctor is not educated in sensory issues when I first asked him about it and that's why im not relying on any advice from him. I am doing my own research on evaluating and getting help for my daughter. I will however ask him if he knows of any doctors that I can use for a sleep study.
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chaiz




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 31 2014, 11:36 am
Shayla wrote:
what do you mean more specific? like any other problems? They said she had mild sensory issues and no other problems.


Does it mean she under-responds to stimuli or over-responds. Is she too sensitive to them or not sensitive enough? Is it all the senses or just some? And if it is more than one, my understanding is that in for one sense a person may over respond and for another over-respond. But the experts can correct me on that.
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MaBelleVie




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 31 2014, 11:37 am
Sounds like you're on the right track and really trying to help her out!
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Dolly Welsh




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 31 2014, 11:41 am
MaBelleVie wrote:
It sounds like the sleep is probably tied into the sensory stuff. I can only speak for myself, but when I wake up a few times at night I get pretty crabby and don't make the best choices. Even if I'm regularly waking so often, it just isn't quality sleep. I read a study recently that waking up a few times at night is equivalent to severe sleep deprivation. So your dd is running on a severely sleep deprived brain! That's a big deal.

Can you find a way to cover OT for sensory treatment? Either through your insurance or paying privately. It can make a huge difference in her sleep habits, her overall mood and demeanor, and her aggression. Doing stuff on your own is great but it sounds like she needs more. This isn't simply behavior, there is reason to believe that there is a lot more underlying.


This, this. There is more going on here.

Please make sure her sleeping room is COLD.

And dark. COLD. Way too cold for you.
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Shayla




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 31 2014, 12:45 pm
Dolly Welsh wrote:
This, this. There is more going on here.

Please make sure her sleeping room is COLD.

And dark. COLD. Way too cold for you.


yeah its extremely dark in her room and she sleeps with a noise maker...

what about the cold thing?
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 31 2014, 1:02 pm
Have you tried role playing for behavior?

We had two little figurines named Perry and Raizy (picked two random names that no one has used IRL in my extended family) and we played out all sorts of situations with them. Basically, Perry was an angel who did everything the right way, and Raizy struggled (and represented DD).

So in the situation of the ices.....I would act out Raizy getting the wrong color ices and throwing it down the stairs, tantrum....then Raizy ends up in time-out.

Perry gets wrong color ices...she comes downstairs, says thank you but could I please have a different color (at a later stage, Perry might decide to be ok with different color....), gets another ices, and enjoys it.

We also had black and white puppets for Yetzer Hara and Yetzer Tov, and we had endless discussions of the Yetzer Hara sitting on Raizy and getting her into trouble, and how sad the Yetzer Tov was when this happened....Yetzer Hara gloating while Raizy doll is put into DD's room for time-out....

My DD is also very smart but with sensory issues, and the visualizing and role playing helped alot (in fact, she took Raizy into time-out with her....and other times when she triumphed with the correct behavior, she and the Perry doll celebrated.....)
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Shayla




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 31 2014, 1:10 pm
Chayalle wrote:
Have you tried role playing for behavior?

We had two little figurines named Perry and Raizy (picked two random names that no one has used IRL in my extended family) and we played out all sorts of situations with them. Basically, Perry was an angel who did everything the right way, and Raizy struggled (and represented DD).

So in the situation of the ices.....I would act out Raizy getting the wrong color ices and throwing it down the stairs, tantrum....then Raizy ends up in time-out.

Perry gets wrong color ices...she comes downstairs, says thank you but could I please have a different color (at a later stage, Perry might decide to be ok with different color....), gets another ices, and enjoys it.

We also had black and white puppets for Yetzer Hara and Yetzer Tov, and we had endless discussions of the Yetzer Hara sitting on Raizy and getting her into trouble, and how sad the Yetzer Tov was when this happened....Yetzer Hara gloating while Raizy doll is put into DD's room for time-out....

My DD is also very smart but with sensory issues, and the visualizing and role playing helped alot (in fact, she took Raizy into time-out with her....and other times when she triumphed with the correct behavior, she and the Perry doll celebrated.....)


thanks! sounds like a great idea. I will definitely try role playing.
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chaiz




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 31 2014, 1:13 pm
Shayla wrote:
yeah its extremely dark in her room and she sleeps with a noise maker...

what about the cold thing?


I am not sure it needs to be really cold, but it can be really hard to get quality sleep if it is too hot. I am talking from experience. Level of comfort is dependent on the person. So you might want to make sure the room is comfortable, not too hot and not too cold either as that also makes it hard to sleep properly.
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Dolly Welsh




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 31 2014, 1:16 pm
People in general who are having sleep issues should always make the room colder. This kid is noted by posters above as not getting good, proper sleep.

It's summer. Cool her room. In general she may be too hot, but especially she needs to sleep in cool.

As for role playing, I recall to you her actual age, which always rules. Developmental is developmental, no matter how smart you are. I don't think a kid her age has the mental capacity to role play.

I recommend you get various perspectives from your pediatrician and anybody else in this field you can access. You will know best how to choose from what you hear.

I remind you again to read up on infant development for her age, and to remember every minute her true age. She is so verbal and clever that it is easy to be deceived, but she is only the age she is. Perhaps she is letting you know that forcefully by acting so very baby-ish and uncontrolled.

But there may be more to the story too.

Start right away with an air conditioner in her sleeping room. It can be very small. It will make the white noise you want. A small fan in addition.

If getting an air conditioner is complicated, I would run to the store right now and add another small fan to that room, trained more or less right on her. She should sleep in only a diaper, no shirt.

Perhaps get her a stuffed animal to sleep with. I recommend a pink one. I want her to feel very much like a sweet girl.
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Dolly Welsh




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 31 2014, 1:39 pm
The noise make may be waking her up. Try one night without it.
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 31 2014, 2:00 pm
Dolly Welsh wrote:


As for role playing, I recall to you her actual age, which always rules. Developmental is developmental, no matter how smart you are. I don't think a kid her age has the mental capacity to role play.



In fact, 2-3 is an excellent age to role play. That is the age at which I role played with DD. By the time she was about 4, she had outgrown it.

The role play was recommended to me by her 2-year-old Morah, who happens to be very popular and well-known in Lakewood, with years of experience. I found it to be very effective at the time.
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5*Mom




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 31 2014, 2:17 pm
Chayalle wrote:
In fact, 2-3 is an excellent age to role play. That is the age at which I role played with DD. By the time she was about 4, she had outgrown it.

The role play was recommended to me by her 2-year-old Morah, who happens to be very popular and well-known in Lakewood, with years of experience. I found it to be very effective at the time.

ITA. I've done this with my 2-yr-olds and it was originally recommended to me by a social worker friend specifically for this age. We have solved many a problem this way.
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Dolly Welsh




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 31 2014, 2:40 pm
I stand corrected, then.
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granolamom




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 31 2014, 8:45 pm
Shayla wrote:
My 2.5 year old (going on 4) meaning shes so mature talks and understand stuff beyond her age has lately turned into an aggressive kid! Seriously, she says no to everything, spits ALL the time, potches and pinches me! After shes done drinking our eating or playing she'll spill the rest of the stuff or throw it across the room. She's extremely jealous of other kids (no other siblings yet shes my oldest) hits fights spits never shares her toys...she aggressive to babies too..

She always had sensory issues and I evaluated her but she didn't get approved cuz she was too smart.

Basically I'm trying to be consistent with time out and trying to show her lotss of love and give her attention and time. But noting seems to work. Whenever something doesn't go her way or even if it does shes just aggressive and doesn't.listen to me.

Any advice from any of u with experience would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!
Frazzled mom!


I didnt read the whole thread so I might be redundant.
this is a tough age for kids. you are giving loads of love and attention and time, but it seems she might be seeking something else entirely - power. at this age (especially if she's mature and precocious) kids realize that they are the boss of their bodies. they learn that they can do stuff and they WANT to do stuff and control stuff. give her as many choices as possible. teach her to pour her own juice and choose her own clothes. the more she can do for herself, the more things she can control (like keep a box of snacks that she can choose from, or a shelf that is 'hers' for 'her' stuff) the more agreeable she might become when you really must call the shots.
also, if she's got sensory stuff going on, what are you doing to address that? you can still help her with that even without an OT, but perhaps even paying for a one-time consult so you have an idea might be a good idea. there's plenty of books out there with ideas too.
time outs never worked for my kids, and for sure not at that age. my 2's were mostly not good at sharing either. I'd ignore the spitting, poching, and pinching for the moment. give lots of praise when she is doing what she should be doing, but not in the 'good girl' way, more like 'I love when you sit nicely next to me' or 'you know how to keep the table neat and clean'.
I'm sure she's quite bright, but even 2 yo genioses dont always understand as much as we think they do. cut her some slack, she's only 2.

and (((hugs))) it'll get much easier in a year or two.
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chani8




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 01 2014, 1:45 am
It is very difficult to get doctors to take these kinds of things seriously. So that's why it helps to become your own self-made expert on your kids. Read up, do things yourself.

For example, you don't need a doctor or a sleep study to tell you that your child isn't sleeping well. If you think she isn't sleeping well, then you can try to figure out if there is anything you can do to help your child sleep better. My child had sleep issues, so I gave Dr Reckewig sleep drops that have chamomile and valerian root and those drops calmed her brain and after about a year on those drops, she started sleeping through the night without problems.

If you think she has sensory issues, read up on how to help her. Giving her a heavy blanket, or calming noise, letting her jump a lot, lots of swinging, rolling/wrestling, texture play in a bucket, etc.

If you are worried about aggression, then read up. The book "How to talk so kids will listen, and listen so kids will talk" is great for learning how to validate and lower frustration.

I would ask you to make sure that you're not overreacting to her aggression. If you're afraid of her aggression, or scolding her about it, or trying to control her, it will get worse. With a child that young, I would not say a word (our body language and facial expressions are enough!) but I would take her out of the situation.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 01 2014, 5:12 am
OP, I've just read the rest of this thread. I apologize for saying "It's totally normal". I didn't mean to invalidate you in any way. Reading your further responses, I can see that you have some very legitimate concerns. It looks to me like you are really on top of things, and doing great job so far!

I agree with the posters who say that you should push your doctor for referrals. I suggest getting a comprehensive allergy test done, and not just for the most common ones. Odd things like corn starch, book dust (not kidding!) or red dye can wreak havoc with a kid's behavior, without showing "classic" allergy symptoms.

My brother was horribly allergic to whole wheat, but was just fine with all kinds of white wheat and gluten. My poor mom ways trying to cook healthy, and it was turning my brother into a little monster. Once she found out about the allergy, his moods evened out pretty much overnight. If he accidentally ate a graham cracker at school, he'd come home and tear the house apart until he collapsed from exhaustion. shock

While checking out the medical aspects, I also second doing as much role play as possible. If nothing else, it can be really fun to find out how her little mind works, and you might get some very useful insight that way.
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Dolly Welsh




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 01 2014, 11:12 am
What is that infection that can affect behavior, a kind of strep?

I meant PANDAS. I know nothing about it, but others may.
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