reincarnation | Imamother

yo'ma

Wed, Aug 06 2014, 11:41 am

Do we believe in reincarnation? I can't recall who spoke, but I heard a shiur online (torahdownloads) that we don't believe in reincarnation. He mentioned that when moshiach comes and everyone comes back to life, if we believe in reincarnation, who will they come alive as, which life? Now I'm listening to another shiur given by Rabbi Dovid Gottlieb and he says that we believe in reincarnation. He's talking about the holocaust and children dying. He says why did children die, they're innocent. Then he said who knows what they did in his previous life/lives? Can anyone enlighten me please? Thank you!

busymom

Wed, Aug 06 2014, 12:15 pm

I believe in reincarnation but also don't think anyone should make assumptions about the past lives of people. How can we ever figure out heavenly cheshbonos? Maybe children in the Holocaust were very special souls who volunteered to come down and gain even more merit by dying al Kiddush Hashem?

yo'ma

Wed, Aug 06 2014, 12:19 pm

sequoia wrote:

Regardless, that's a horrible, disgusting, wicked thing to say. Whatever they "did" in their previous life, no one deserves the gas chamber and the oven.

I didn't say I agree with it, just saying what he said in reference to what I'm asking. I actually don't like most of the shiur.

gittelchana

Wed, Aug 06 2014, 12:21 pm

yo'ma wrote:

We invented the concept. Smile

There is a very old Sefer of Kabbalah called Sefer Hagilgulim which speaks about this. I never learned it nor did my husband, so I don't know what's written in that Sefer. I just know that it exists.

Volunteer

Wed, Aug 06 2014, 1:11 pm

I'm not even going to comment on the Holocaust issue...

I believe that most rabbis (especially those that are into kabalah) do believe in reincarnation. In the Sephardic tefillot for Yom Kippur, in the confession, one line says, "... for the sins that would cause us to have to be reincarnated as another person, animal, plant, or non-living thing." One source I can think of right off the top of my head is where the Ohr HaChaim (R' Chaim BenAttar) said that Shechem was reincarnated into Rabbi Pinchas Ben Yair's donkey (look in Bereshit 34:3). There have been other comments about Eliezer being reincarnated as a Kohen Gadol, Noah being reincarnated as Moshe, then Moshe returning as Mashiach, etc.

I have not read this personally, but I was told that Rabbi Saadiah Gaon wrote an article against reincarnation (though the rabbi who spoke conjectured that Rabbi Saadiah was writing apologetically to placate the Muslim majority, who considered reincarnation to be heretical).

As far as I know, almost all Christians consider the belief in reincarnation to be heretical.

PinkFridge

Wed, Aug 06 2014, 2:51 pm

There's a story about a couple who was consoled by being told that their child was a gilgul of Avraham ben Avraham, who needed to come back for a certain amount of time.
This is not a trick I'd try at home.

amother

Wed, Aug 06 2014, 3:52 pm

Rebbetzin Tzipora heller speaks about gilgulim as a classical jewish belief. I don't remember her sources but she's a very learned woman.
I know that there are also those who disagree and say reincarnation is not a jewish belief. But as far as I'm concerned, the concept of gilgulim brings me a lot of comfort. So if there are those who say it is indeed true, I'm happy to believe them.

PinkFridge

Wed, Aug 06 2014, 4:20 pm

amother wrote:

No question it's a classical Jewish belief. The question comes when we start making assumptions about when and where it applies. Personally, when it comes to this, tamim tihye im Hashem Elokecha is my motto and I won't start making things complicated or overthinking.