Mishpacha article - No Shidduch Crisis by SY Rechnitz

amother

Mon, Aug 11 2014, 12:29 pm

Did anyone read the article by Shlomo Yehuda Rechnitz in the Mishpacha? I saw a poster in my local grocery store announcing that he's written an article. It had catchy phrases like "There is NO shidduch crisis" and "get ready to change the world", and I'd love to read it, but Mishpacha is outrageously expensive where I live and I don't get to buy it that often.

Can anyone tell me what it said?

joy613

Mon, Aug 11 2014, 1:00 pm

Was definitely a catchy title to get people to read the article. But in a nutshell he meant that it's not a crisis, it is a shidduch catastrophe. Mainly about his exposure to so many single girls and he believes a lot is due to the age gap issue.

For some reason though, I never really believed in that whole age gap thing. I mean I get that there's an age gap. but I don't see how it's responsible for all the single girls out there. I think it's so much more complicated than that.
But either way he had some interesting ideas and his generous offers to shadchanim I'm sure will do a lot to change things.

allrgymama

Mon, Aug 11 2014, 2:18 pm

It was a great article.

Not that I'm an expert, but I think it starts off with the age gap and is then made worse by parents and the young adults on the market not being on the same page as to what they're looking for -- so shidduchim that are being redt can end up very far off the mark.

There was a guestlines in Mishpacha the other week that addressed this in the framework of living a kollel lifestyle and not looking for a boy like that if you don't really want that -- but I would appreciate it covered in general. If parents feel a child is mature enough to get married, they should be mature enough to know what kind of person they want to be married to.

PinkFridge

Mon, Aug 11 2014, 2:27 pm

Personally, I've always felt that the age gap exists, but the major issue is what allrgymama touches on and that is the lack of chanoch l'naar al pi darko. However, R' Rechnitz is an odom gadol and I don't just mean he's 6'7" or whatever. Gevirim like him see A LOT. I respect him for going out on a limb and putting his money where his mouth is. Because of my respect for him and the people he consults, I am willing to rethink some of my deeply held thoughts.
As long as there is no mandated social engineering and on an individual level parents will work with their children to make the best decisions for them, kol hakavod.

Frumdoc

Mon, Aug 11 2014, 2:42 pm

1. I don't really understand the idea of throwing money at people to encourage shidduchim, well, maybe I understand but I don't know whether it is effective.

2. I do think we need to collate the data on not just how many are getting married but how many are staying married for over a year, as I have the anecdotal impression that there is an increasing number of early divorces, whih implies there is a lot more to this getting married thing than paying enough to a shadchan.

Which we know. The question is why are people not getting married and why are they not staying married and are these issues related, and are we possibly going about our matchmaking in the wrong way if it isn't being as successful as we would like and in fact causing a "catastrophe"?

So what would be a better approach other than just changing the ages of our matching scheme?

imokay

Mon, Aug 11 2014, 2:54 pm

If it were simply an age gap issue, then all boys wud b married, leaving just the girls leftover. This isn't the case. There r plenty of older single guys. So clearly there r other reasons.
Ex: - parents doing the 'checking' and creating rigid criteria for potential mates.
-The whole learning boy is superior thing breeds a situation where the girls' family finances r of utmost importance (boys marrying younger, so even further from being able to support a family wud actually exacerbate this problem)
Also the boys r typically not encouraged to pursue a vocation, once again making finances important.
-the open approach to dating, where we r looking for soul connections and love and attraction and perfection (not saying this is wrong approach, just that it's a whole lot easier to marry a kid off if parents set it up and just need the consent from the child to make engagement official)
-some older singles have developed dating careers, where unwittingly they r unable to commit to a relationship

Just need to add, I am super impressed w rechnitz's generosity and innovation in trying to solve the problem! He sounds like an amazing person.

amother

Mon, Aug 11 2014, 4:12 pm

causemommysaid wrote:

the age gap is an issue but if boys wont get married younger then girls might have to get married older.

I really think 20 is too young for either gender

I quoted you because of the 20 is too young issue.

I dont think there is a difference between a 20 year old yeshiva boy and a 23 year old yeshiva boy.

I believe the problem stems from US WOMEN, I think the mothers are the issue here.

I dont understand why any mother would want her 23 year old to marry a 18/19 year old because that means she's young. If you are looking for someone to support your son while he learns how is a 18/19 year old going to do that?

I would say I understand that a mother may not want her 18 year old daughter to marry a 20 year old boy because what does HE have to offer, but that is not part of the shidduch crisis.

I dont know what a 18/19 year old has to offer more than a 23/24/25 year old girl. Does the 18 year old have less wrinkles than the 23 year old?

I think a girls age should be eliminated from shidduchim. If you want to categorize then call them under 20, in their 20s, in their 30s, etc. The only negative thing that I can see with a girl getting older is fertility. If you are comparing an 18 year old to a 23 year old in terms of fertility.....not much difference. Between an 18 and a 30 year old.....yes there could be difference in fertility.

For me personally, I went out with my dh not knowing how old he was. He had skipped 2 grades so I didnt know. On our second date I snuck a peak at his licence and saw the red line saying 21 in the year ****. My dh is 10 months older than me. All of his friends are about 2 years older than him. The first 3 guys I dated were 24,25,26 and I didnt want to date them because the age gap was too big.

agreer

Mon, Aug 11 2014, 5:36 pm

I personally do believe there's no difference between a 20-yo learning boy and a 23-yo learning boy, especially if both expect to be supported. I see no reason why, in the yeshivish world (and that's a big disclaimer), boys should not start dating at 20. They're going to be supported anyway - why should they be supported without responsibility and get to travel/"chill" for 3 extra years? That makes no sense! A wife (and iy'h child(ren)) will definitely make the young man more mature.

mummiedearest

Mon, Aug 11 2014, 5:46 pm

I believe that the "shidduch crisis" is actually an issue that stems from our communities' emphasis on marriage. basically, we put so much emphasis on getting married that there's no room for valuing single adults. based on that, people are desperate to get married at a young age (the age to be considered a spinster varies by community, but I'd say the average is still pretty young). the fact that the community has labeled this a "shidduch crisis" is very telling. I do not wish to minimize the pain felt by individuals having a hard time finding the right shidduch, btw. I'm saying that our outlook as a community leads to a lot of unhealthy expectations. I think the healthier thing would be to accept that there are always going to be older singles, though the numbers may vary. we need to value singles as contributing members of society, and we need to cut the pressure. this pressure is leading to all those unhealthy decisions we make (can't report molestation, it will affect the child's future shidduch chances, can't pull out of dysfunctional school, etc). it is also feeding into the shidduch system, which allows a lot of dysfunctional parents to get in the way of legitimately good matches. people are held hostage by crazy demands from parents. and the whole shidduch system prevents some people from just meeting their bashert socially, which would really help a lot of people. I think blaming the "crisis" on age differences is a blind, and I think we need to examine this problem a little differently.

Learning

Mon, Aug 11 2014, 6:18 pm

I think the problem is very deep. The גדולי הדור decided
עת לעשות להשם הפירו תורתך.
They told all the boys to learn full time until later in life. But now..what about the girls???? The boys are enjoying all the pampering while the girls are paying the price. These boys want to have it all!! They stay in tora but still get all the money and all the young girls. Well, this is just not right. The גדולי הדור have to make another תקנה or גזרה to offset the first one. They have to tell these learning boys to not wait and choose. These boys should marry young and stay married while in Kollel. This is the real way to do it. You can't leave the girls behind.

gittelchana

Mon, Aug 11 2014, 7:03 pm

mummiedearest wrote:

The Torah puts a big emphasis on marriage. Mitzvah #1 can only legitimately be fulfilled through marriage Wink

PinkFridge

Mon, Aug 11 2014, 7:07 pm

Learning wrote:

Ah, Chemotherapy as Metaphor.

I don't think boys want the young girls davka. It's just flowed naturally that they would be redt girls 2-3 years younger.

And telling the boys not to wait and choose? Rush into marriage, is that what you mean? I think that when boys start going out at a younger age they don't overthink like older boys but they should still think!

And what do you mean that they "should...stay married while in Kollel"? I'm not sure what your point is there.

Jeanette

Mon, Aug 11 2014, 7:11 pm

Quote:

it is also feeding into the shidduch system, which allows a lot of dysfunctional parents to get in the way of legitimately good matches. people are held hostage by crazy demands from parents. and the whole shidduch system prevents some people from just meeting their bashert socially, which would really help a lot of people.

Agreed. Marriage is a mitzvah. It is absurd when our gedorim around this mitzvah (to prevent people from mingling and socializing inappropriately) prevent the actual fulfillment of the mitzvah.

Does the shidduch system exist to bring people together or to keep them apart?

We need to get it out of our heads that there is something wrong or sinful about young men and women meeting each other in some informal setting, striking up a relationship, developing an interest in each other and getting married.

When people are not allowed to meet in a natural way you have this highly UNNATURAL situation of young people in their 20's and 30's who have never had a normal relationship with anyone of the opposite gender.

People seem to think that older singles are a necessary price we have to pay to preserve the shidduch system. Please tell me why the shidduch system is worth preserving and why these older singles have to be the korbonos.