how do people survive?

amother

Tue, Aug 12 2014, 10:17 pm

Here's my basic monthly expense list for a family with 5 kids (all in school) living in Brooklyn:

Mortgage - $3000 (assuming u bought a "starter" home in the last 10 years for around $550k)
Tuition 5 kids- $3000 ($600 per kid, + reg and dinner fees)
Food - $2000
cars (1 car 1 van + ins.) $800
misc expense $1500
utilities - $500

total - $10,800 per month which is $130,00 AFTER TAX per yer

I'm not going to include cell phone, internet, occasional cleaning help, yomim tovim, sleep away camps, making a simcha, ect. That means just to get by, a family has to earn around $175,000 pre tax. I realize that many people rent and some people have only 1 car, but does it stand to reason that the overwhelming majority of families that own homes in Brooklyn make a combined $175k? I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed!

seeker

Tue, Aug 12 2014, 10:25 pm

Anywhere out of NYC you can cut that mortgage by half or less. And probably get a bigger home for it too.
Tuition breaks/"group discounts"

But yeah I wonder the same thing as you! I can't imagine ALL those families are earning that much or drowning in debt! I feel like I'm living in an alternate universe or different dimension. Scratching Head

sneakermom

Tue, Aug 12 2014, 10:51 pm

That's a lot of money for food. I would say ten thousand if you are very frugal and fifteen is more average. There are great food deals in brooklyn.

Brooklyn probably has the most flexible tuitions. If you can't pay they negotiate with you. Community schools that is.

Most people who struggle do not leap to buy a home in brooklyn. Many rent long term.

But if you want to live comfortably. Nice size home, fancy schools, newish car, current clothes, camps, therapies or tutors, going out to eat, cleaning help, some fancy food for Yom Tov, etc. You need a large income. Or rich parents. Very Happy

seeker

Tue, Aug 12 2014, 10:57 pm

sneakermom wrote:

For a family of 7 people, not on WIC or food stamps, for a whole month, I did not think $2000 sounded that outrageous for food. I'm a family of 2 adults and two small picky eaters so I don't know what's normal for a larger family size, but it seemed vaguely proportional to what we spend.

Also for a family that size I don't think renting would come out cheaper than $3000 anyway. Five kids and two parents can't fit into a 2-bedroom basement. But I'm not so up to date on Brooklyn rents so I could be wrong. Main advantage I would think would be not having expenses of house upkeep.

Also sorry to nitpick but for many people therapy/tutor is not a luxury and I personally take issue with it being lumped together with large home, new car, etc. Though speaking of new car in the OP it seemed like a lot of money going into the car...

amother

Tue, Aug 12 2014, 11:07 pm

seeker wrote:

This! There are some months where I spend more money on therapy than I do on food! And in a lot of instances that is very much a priority!

sequoia

Tue, Aug 12 2014, 11:14 pm

sneakermom wrote:

That's a lot of money for food. I would say ten thousand if you are very frugal and fifteen is more average. There are great food deals in brooklyn. D

Wait... Fifteen thousand dollars a month for food?

OP says they're spending two thousand, not twenty thousand!

Have I missed a zero somewhere?

amother

Tue, Aug 12 2014, 11:53 pm

amother wrote:

Here's my family budget for a family of 8 children in Brooklyn.

Income: $125K, $96K after taxes

Rent: $1000 for a 900-sq foot, 3 BR. Yes, it's a tight squeeze, and the landlord lets us get away with that rent because the alternative would be homelessness.

Tuition: For now with tuition breaks it's a total of $3500 per month. It will go up next year though when we lose daycare vouchers (income too high).

Food: $2000 a month is about right (older boys away in yeshivah)

Cars: none. Figure $100 give or take for subway

Misc expenses: less than $1500. Probably closer to $1000.

Utilities: $500

So that's $8000 a month which is just about our annual income. No cushion whatsoever for any emergencies or savings, no hopes of ever moving out of this dump unless some miracle occurs. And $125K is considered a pretty generous annual income by most standards. Of course it means we don't qualify for any assistance.

TwinsMommy

Wed, Aug 13 2014, 1:01 am

we spend less than $4000 a month by living in Cleveland and sending to public school. No tuition and rent is $1200 plus water and sewer so usually $1350 or $1400 a month for a 3 level house. We lease one car and one car is paid off (99). We have a loooooot of debt though so where others are spending on mortgage we've got credit cards. No paying for camps, simchos, vacations, etc.

I can't even imagine spending $2000 a month on food. Then again, there's just the 4 of us and 2 are kids.

saw50st8

Wed, Aug 13 2014, 7:38 am

TwinsMommy wrote:

I'm surprised you spend so much. I live in an expensive area and if I didn't send my kids to private school (I have 4), we could pinch pennies and live off of $4,000.

nyer1

Wed, Aug 13 2014, 7:48 am

There are so many factors. Different amounts of kids, rent vs. own, location etc. also, people have very different ideas of what "making it" is. Some people on this site have literally said that they are "making it", while they are on food stamps. To me, that makes no sense.

I'll tell u that it's 3 of us and our mortgage is less than half of yours, in NY because we put down a major down payment. We own one car. We have a part time nanny for when my son gets out of preschool. Food is about 500-600 a month. Enough to save BH. We try hard not to do anything extra because we know there might be a time in our lives where we can't save as much. I'd rather live a simple life now than try to keep up with the jones'.

amother

Wed, Aug 13 2014, 9:57 am

I live in NJ. Four children. Tuition is $70,000/year for the 4 of them. Mortgage is close to $4,000/month. Health insurance plus unreimbursed health expenses is about $20,000/year. My husband and I each commute to and from work, so two cars, car insurance and gas. Food for two adults, two teenagers (who eat A LOT) and two smaller children is easily $2,000 month. My husband and I both work full-time, so we have a babysitter for the couple of hours after our younger children get home before we get home. We make $240,000, which is $146,000 after all taxes. We spend more than we earn every year. We do not live in a fancy neighborhood or in a fancy house. We do not go out. It is a constant stress. We have been told that we cannot get financial aid because others need it more.

amother

Wed, Aug 13 2014, 10:18 am

The answer, for some of you, is that you bought homes that you cannot afford.

A $500,000+ home is not a "starter home."

If your home cost you $700,00 (which, if you put 10% down, gives you a $4000 per month mortgage), and its not in an upscale ("fancy") neighborhood, then you made a big mistake.

I'm not suggesting that you have to sell your homes, but people really need to learn from your mistakes.

amother

Wed, Aug 13 2014, 10:41 am

op here. A 3 bedroom "starter"home in the marine park area is more than $500k. Anywhere between, lets say, Avenue J and Avenue U, and between Ocean Pkwy and Nostrand Avenue, u can add on a couple hundred grand. I'm not even gonna ask where a couple who got married young (be4 they had a chance to work a few years and save most of their salary) can come up with 100K+ for a down payment. I realize we could theoretically bite the bullet and move to the mid west but I grew up here, my DH grew up here, and we have lots of family here. My point was that unless you r getting a tzedakah rate in yeshiva, or ur landlord is willing to rent u a 3 bedroom for $1000, again thats basically tsedakah, it seems that in order to simply get by in Bklyn, a family needs a pre tax income of close to $200k.

sneakermom

Wed, Aug 13 2014, 11:19 am

amother wrote:

In order to survive and own a home, a car and some other little luxuries you need to make $200 thousand before taxes with a family that size.

sneakermom

Wed, Aug 13 2014, 11:32 am

seeker wrote:

I hear you about the food. Although I know people who manage on about two hundred a week on food. They are frugal though.

Many people save money by living for a long time in their original apt they got married in (esp if it's two bedroom) so the rent is lower than the going rate.

No need to take offense about the therapy. I'm the first one to say it can be a necessity. But you will find that as your income grows you might be quicker to use outside help for various issues because you can afford it and it's very beneficial.