Lakewood - The best of it, worst of it and everything in bet

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debsey

Wed, Aug 13 2014, 9:49 pm

lk1234 wrote:

I think that people out of lakewood often only hear the bad things and they don't realize how AMAZING lakewood really is as far as everything that debsey said. The services for kids, the accomodations for frum poeple in any and every possible business venue, and just being a part of your complex, community, block etc.

One downside- NO TAKEOUT- if anyone is reading this from brooklyn and wants to start a good business-PLEASE make a takeout store in lakewood. WE NEED ONE. PLEASE

Thanks for the agreement. I think Lakewood gets a bad rap that it doesn't always deserve.
BTW, did you try Yapchick for takeout? I assume you're talking meal-mart style takeout? I'm an old fashioned lakewooder. When I want something from a deli (like ptcha, which I will NEVER cook in my house) I just go to R&S

amother

Wed, Aug 13 2014, 10:33 pm

This thread is good for me. I'm moving to Lakewood iyH in a couple weeks. I'm really nervous about the bad stuff I always hear about Lakewood. Debesy's post made me feel a little better, so thanks!

debsey

Thu, Aug 14 2014, 9:39 am

amother wrote:

This thread is good for me. I'm moving to Lakewood iyH in a couple weeks. I'm really nervous about the bad stuff I always hear about Lakewood. Debesy's post made me feel a little better, so thanks!

Glad to hear it! Welcome to Lakewood. I hope you're already accepted into a school, unless you are a newlywed.

Chayalle

Thu, Aug 14 2014, 9:51 am

debsey wrote:

WORST: Lakewood is very "box" oriented. You fit in with a "type" and you need to stick with your "type." Like if you are from the heimishe, more upscale "type" but you happen to have a daughter who would do well in a different type of high school, she's NEVER getting in. You need to stay in your box.

Bais Faiga's box is a little bit bigger than some of the other boxes, in terms of type in the school. But like you said debsey - good luck getting in, even if you are the principal's first degree relative.

Very well said post, debsey.

allrgymama

Thu, Aug 14 2014, 9:51 am

To address OP's question:

The things that are bad about Lakewood (in my experience) are the things that are terrible while you're going through them (like getting a kid into school and I can't even think of anything else) but once it's over, you get on with life and it has the same difficulties of any other neighborhood.

There's bad traffic and, because it is so lush with grass and trees and flowers in the spring it's particularly depressing (for me) in the winter. (Although driving down stretches of Kennedy when the trees are covered in snow and everything is quiet has it's own beauty).

Most living expenses are cheaper.

On a very personal note, I NEVER wanted to live in LKWD. I had these horrible pre-conceived notions about how it was going to be and, in the 6 years that I'm living here, I've learned that 1) things are really what you make of them and 2) your neighbors are vital.

I live on a block with neighbors of different ages and backgrounds, who got married at different ages and have children at different stages who (themselves, their husbands or both) are employed in different fields. Everyone's opinion is important and valid. This is a HUGE part of why I enjoy living in LKWD. I grew up going to a bungalow colony (not a summer home) and the sitting outside schmoozing is amazing. I have really really changed as a person since my marriage and since developing relationships with my neighbors (though it was a constant effort at times to put myself out of my introverted comfort zone).

Lastly, living in LKWD is really forcing me (in a good way) into a more yeshivish mentality. While I get teased by my family (and my own internal monologue) often, I know that this is ultimately better for my family. Things would have been much more different in a different place (and honestly, even I. A different development in LKWD or with different neighbors)

Chayalle

Thu, Aug 14 2014, 9:54 am

allrgymama wrote:

your neighbors are vital.

This. One of the reasons I still live in my small starter home.....I'd rather live in a small place in a great neighborhood, then live in a big house but feel boxed in.

amother

Thu, Aug 14 2014, 10:14 am

Bad things about Lakewood IMHO (1)The statement "any school in Lakewood is one you would be thrilled to send your children to if you lived out of town" is very questionably true.There are definitely schools in Brooklyn I would prefer over my children's current schools (2)The statement "the reason housing developments in Lakewood are called complexes is because they cause you to develop one" has a lot of truth to to it(3)From an haskafic point of view I'm very uncomfortable with the aggressive politicking in Lakewood .I also find the endless self references in Lakewood publications to Lakewood as "the" (not even a) Ihr H'Torah to be very arrogant and holier then though etc

I grew up in "Old time Lakewood" None of these issues existed back then.

With the above I still think Lakewood is the best place in CHU"L to live.I'm only mentioning the bad side because it is rarely discussed and was requested here.There is a world of positive in Lakewood and amongst it's inhabitants.I would never consider moving elsewhere.

amother

Thu, Aug 14 2014, 10:44 am

I dont live in lkwd, but havent there been multiple threads about the shortgage of womens mikvahs and the long waits in lkwd? If Im wrong, correct me. For me that would be on the list of 'worst'.

Chayalle

Thu, Aug 14 2014, 11:09 am

amother wrote:

I dont live in lkwd, but havent there been multiple threads about the shortgage of womens mikvahs and the long waits in lkwd? If Im wrong, correct me. For me that would be on the list of 'worst'.

The issues are mainly in the summer months, and I find that when I'm ready I call and they are very accomodating. So - while it's an issue - it's hardly what I'd put on the 'worse' list.

allrgymama

Thu, Aug 14 2014, 11:10 am

The Mikva issue is really (in my experience) just around shvuous time, when the zman is really late and ok one has gone up to the mountains.

You may get late appts, but I've only had to wait in the waiting room with other ppl once, when shvuous was a three day Yom tov and so it wasn't possible to make an appt for Motzei shvuous before Yom tov started.

amother

Thu, Aug 14 2014, 11:13 am

I dont live in lkwd, but havent there been multiple threads about the shortgage of womens mikvahs and the long waits in lkwd? If Im wrong, correct me. For me that would be on the list of 'worst'.

I have lived in Lakewood for a long time. There is a really NO waiting at the mikvah. Since it's an appointment based system the longest I have ever had to wait was about 5 minutes while they checked in those in line before me. However, since it's an appointment based systsem the problem is that you need to make the appointment asap or you will get one quite late at night. I would still prefer knowing that my appt is at 11:45 pm initially, then just showing up at 9:00 and having to wait until 11:00 like I hear ppl do in other towns.
Also, as per the mikvah lady at the main mikvah on Madison - the new mikvah should be opened within a few months.

debsey

Thu, Aug 14 2014, 11:23 am

amother wrote:

I agree with MOST of this. I hate complex living and am so glad I found a house on a BLOCK (you know, that old fashioned place where people don't live in lock-step with one another.....) I like being outside and chatting with mothers, but there's something about a complex that creates pressure to conform. There's such a thing as TOO much of a good thing.
1) I truly believe that lakewood has EXCELLENT schools. The exclusivity and pressure to get in, I'll grant you (I'm the one that brought it up first, after all) But once you are in, the schools are wonderful. Even the schools that are not considered "tops" are excellent. My daughter did not get into her first choice of High School, and I am THRILLED with her second choice (OK, it happens to be a school that many people choose as first choice, I'm not kidding myself.)
I've worked in schools both in and out of Lakewood - the Lakewood schools really do have something extra. Like I said in my original post, I think it's the "Lakewood brain drain" So many talented people move here, even if it's just for a few years at the beginning of their marriage. So many experienced people retire here. You just have a very large talent pool for schools to draw on.
I married an "old Lakewood" boy. His mother waxes so nostalgic about "old Lakewood" but let's face it - those days are GONE.
I agree with the whole "Ihr HaTorah" thing. But Lakewood was founded around the yeshiva. The issues that arise in Lakewood are mostly the culture war between those who want to keep Lakewood as the "Ihr HaTorah" and those who say - hey, it's just a zip code - I never learned in BMG, I moved here for the property prices, the great schools, the kosher food -it's a LOCATION, not a yeshiva....That culture war will be fought for decades to come, no resolution is in sight.

amother

Thu, Aug 14 2014, 11:31 am

debsey wrote:

I truly believe that lakewood has EXCELLENT schools. The exclusivity and pressure to get in, I'll grant you (I'm the one that brought it up first, after all) But once you are in, the schools are wonderful. Even the schools that are not considered "tops" are excellent. My daughter did not get into her first choice of High School, and I am THRILLED with her second choice (OK, it happens to be a school that many people choose as first choice, I'm not kidding myself.)

How do you define an excellent school? Once your child is in, do they accommodate special needs, bullying, etc? Or is it only an excellent school if your child is the prototype of their ideal student?

debsey

Thu, Aug 14 2014, 11:40 am

amother wrote:

Depends on the school. I have had wonderful success with schools working with me with 5 out of 7 children (the others aren't in school yet)
The one kid who didn't have the school's help and support -I switched his school and the new school is BEYOND AMAZING and accommodating. Yes, it was difficult to switch and I had to really work hard to make it happen. But I was able to and the new school is beyond supportive. So happy.
I find that schools in Lakewood really do listen to the professionals -and if a professional says switch him, the schools will really accommodate that.

amother

Thu, Aug 14 2014, 11:43 am

debsey wrote:

Glad to hear it! Welcome to Lakewood. I hope you're already accepted into a school, unless you are a newlywed.

Have four kids bH. Three are school age. BH all of them got into schools.

sky

Thu, Aug 14 2014, 11:51 am

There are times in Lakewood that mikva is tough. Motzei shabbos in the summer can get very late, but as other said it is all appt based so I have never waited. Just showed up at my time. And they really try to get you in earlier if possible.
There are times when appts go to 2:00 am, but it is rare. (more like motzei tisha b'av when you have a double shift and it starts late).

Another great is the parks and open space. We enjoy the lake, and all the parks in the area.

My children's school has been amazing at realizing issues earlier and being on top of it. Many schools in Lakewood have kriah specialists for every student that needs help and self contained classrooms that aren't special ed, its regular ed for the struggling student that need a smaller class size to succeed. They also quickly addressed bus issues. My kid's also had social skills taught in Primary which was amazing (like how make friends, share, talk to others, etc). I feel like they cover a lot.

Chayalle

Thu, Aug 14 2014, 1:16 pm

sky wrote:

Another great is the parks and open space. We enjoy the lake, and all the parks in the area.

Great point! Something I sorely miss when I go to my father for Shabbos. Lakewood's parks are, for the most part, beautiful, clean, and safe, and there are many options.

amother

Thu, Aug 14 2014, 1:35 pm

amother wrote:

Have four kids bH. Three are school age. BH all of them got into schools.

How on earth did you do that? Where did they get accepted????

amother

Thu, Aug 14 2014, 1:41 pm

this may seem like a silly question...

everyone who lives in Lakewood says how in some places in can be so diverse, and not everyone is so yeshivish, or sitting in learning.
but what I am wondering is, does the Yeshiva (bmg) and its Roshie Yeshiva kind of, control the town? not in a bad way, but in a way, that if they think X is wrong, then the schools, wanting to accommodate ppl will think X is wrong, which by default is taught to my child, and then becomes the accepted norm of the town?

You dont have that much of that in NYC, bc its so diverse (ok aside from Williamsburg and Borough Park )

allrgymama

Thu, Aug 14 2014, 1:55 pm

I'm not sure I understand the question:

Do you mean could there be a situation in which there is something in the curriculum that your school (obviously) doesn't have a problem with but that the Roshei Yeshiva of BMG do and so will put pressure to have it removed from the curriculum?

If that's the question, I don't think I've ever heard of that happening, but my eldest is only starting primary this year. I also don't think it would ever happen in the school we're sending to, for what it's worth.

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