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How is this financial aid???
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amother


 

Post Tue, Aug 19 2014, 5:01 pm
My DH spoke with the executive director of our boys yeshiva this morning. We will be paying approximately 14,000 for our 2 boys. (1 high school, 1 elementary school) the executive director emphasized that if we don't pay full tuition (around 20,000 for both boys) then they will use some of the tzedakah money to cover the difference. I want to point out that the director was menchlach and didn't make my DH feel like a complete charity case. However, Here's my point: If everyone in my sons classes would be paying 7000 then the yeshiva would be doing just fine. It isn't true that other monies are needed to cover the difference that WE arent paying. Obviously and unfortunately others r paying very minimal tuition and therefore the yeshiva asks for 10,000 per child. That being said, I don't feel we r taking anything. Am I wrong?
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self-actualization




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 19 2014, 5:06 pm
amother wrote:
However, Here's my point: If everyone in my sons classes would be paying 7000 then the yeshiva would be doing just fine. It isn't true that other monies are needed to cover the difference that WE arent paying. Obviously and unfortunately others r paying very minimal tuition and therefore the yeshiva asks for 10,000 per child. That being said, I don't feel we r taking anything. Am I wrong?


Do you know for sure that the baseline to educate a student in his yeshiva is $7000?
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Barbara




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 19 2014, 5:22 pm
amother wrote:
My DH spoke with the executive director of our boys yeshiva this morning. We will be paying approximately 14,000 for our 2 boys. (1 high school, 1 elementary school) the executive director emphasized that if we don't pay full tuition (around 20,000 for both boys) then they will use some of the tzedakah money to cover the difference. I want to point out that the director was menchlach and didn't make my DH feel like a complete charity case. However, Here's my point: If everyone in my sons classes would be paying 7000 then the yeshiva would be doing just fine. It isn't true that other monies are needed to cover the difference that WE arent paying. Obviously and unfortunately others r paying very minimal tuition and therefore the yeshiva asks for 10,000 per child. That being said, I don't feel we r taking anything. Am I wrong?


How on earth do you know how much it costs to educate each child at your sons' school? If anything, its likely that it costs MORE than $10,000 a child, and that the additional costs are offset by donations.

If there are, say, 20 kids on a class, each paying your 7000, that's $140,000 per class. Two teachers, each making an abysmal $40,000 a year, which costs the school $45,000. So $50,000 of the tuition goes to the common fund, to pay a portion of the mortgage, insurance, electricity, heat, supplies, repairs, equipment, books, water, salaries for the maintenance staff, secretarial staff, and administration.

Sorry, I don't think that works.

In any case, the tuition is $10,000. Some people, like you, cannot afford it. Be grateful to those who are helping you.
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SRS




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 19 2014, 5:29 pm
High school runs 10K per kid on average without a doubt. If you aren't paying it, someone needs to make up for it even if you are the most contributing parent. I'd be surprised if a Jewish school had anything less than 10K per kid average cost. Low cost parochial schools will run around that for high school. If you want to baseline it, what does a low cost Catholic or Christian school in your area run? That price would be a good baseline.
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 19 2014, 5:30 pm
Barbara wrote:
How on earth do you know how much it costs to educate each child at your sons' school? If anything, its likely that it costs MORE than $10,000 a child, and that the additional costs are offset by donations.

If there are, say, 20 kids on a class, each paying your 7000, that's $140,000 per class. Two teachers, each making an abysmal $40,000 a year, which costs the school $45,000. So $50,000 of the tuition goes to the common fund, to pay a portion of the mortgage, insurance, electricity, heat, supplies, repairs, equipment, books, water, salaries for the maintenance staff, secretarial staff, and administration.

Sorry, I don't think that works.

In any case, the tuition is $10,000. Some people, like you, cannot afford it. Be grateful to those who are helping you.


The school I send to charges $10,000 a child tuition with a cost of $5000 to educate each one. They charge double what it cost to educate each child. I know this fact. OP'S numbers are in line.
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Barbara




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 19 2014, 5:44 pm
Squishy wrote:
The school I send to charges $10,000 a child tuition with a cost of $5000 to educate each one. They charge double what it cost to educate each child. I know this fact. OP'S numbers are in line.


If you say you know about your school, I trust you. I'm surprised that a school can function on that little money -- what do they pay their teachers? The real cost of our school is many, many times that.

ETA -- averaging across all grades, the cost per child at our school is just in excess of $21,000 per child.
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 19 2014, 6:07 pm
Barbara wrote:
If you say you know about your school, I trust you. I'm surprised that a school can function on that little money -- what do they pay their teachers? The real cost of our school is many, many times that.


I have a friend at one BY HS. She makes $4500 a year teaching one subject. My kids aren't in high school yet. I think other schools pay a few thousand more a class. This is for secular subjects.

The schools do not pay on the books. There is no disability, no FICA, no pension, no unemployment payments. This "saves" about 20% of the cost of payroll. Since they don't pay on the books, they can pay less. They are not paying health insurance.

The schools do collect money each year on behalf of the teachers to help pay the cost of Pesach food.

Some schools have ways of raising money besides the parents paying. They will charge $150 for books which they get free from the county. They sell chessed dollars and they sell fuel. The parents must buy fuel from a company one of the administrators own. They get monthly money from having the parents put a filter on their computer. Some schools sold cellphones which they received as part of a grant. Another school received a grant for computers and sold them. That school is anti - computer. I haven't seen that one in the paper yet. An administrator proudly told me.
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MaBelleVie




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 19 2014, 6:10 pm
I've never heard of school paying off the books. How common is this?
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L25




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 19 2014, 6:12 pm
squishy-basically they are illegal? Personally I wouldn't want such people being mechanech my child but thats just me.....
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amother


 

Post Tue, Aug 19 2014, 6:17 pm
anyone who would like to know how much actual actual cost per kid is, your schools tax records etc.. are public you can get them online. you take the TOTAL amount they claim to spend and divide by the amount of kids they claim to have and there you go. Yes your kid may or may not need resource room etc... but it will give you an average. When we asked the lady at a school claimed not to know- its easier for them to say that but its not hard to figure out.
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L25




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 19 2014, 6:19 pm
barbara- the question is why? what are they spending on- personally I don't need a fancy building etc and have no interest in paying for one either
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 19 2014, 6:42 pm
amother wrote:
anyone who would like to know how much actual actual cost per kid is, your schools tax records etc.. are public you can get them online. you take the TOTAL amount they claim to spend and divide by the amount of kids they claim to have and there you go. Yes your kid may or may not need resource room etc... but it will give you an average. When we asked the lady at a school claimed not to know- its easier for them to say that but its not hard to figure out.


This only works if the school is legitimate. You can ask the CFO.
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Barbara




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 19 2014, 6:46 pm
L25 wrote:
barbara- the question is why? what are they spending on- personally I don't need a fancy building etc and have no interest in paying for one either


About 85% are academic salaries and benefits, and business office, etc salaries and benefits.

Its possible that the building mortgage is on a separate budget, but I don't have time to invesigate.

That's why I don't see how other schools can charge so much less.
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amother


 

Post Tue, Aug 19 2014, 6:50 pm
OP here- Ok, I certainly don't claim to know exactly how much it costs to educate each child. That being said if there r approximately 22 boys in each class, that would generate $154,000 per class at $7000 per child, . I ESTIMATE the cost of paying the rebbe and English teachers at a combined $80,000. That leaves $74,000 that can be used towards all the other expenses. The yeshiva has around 35 classes. If each class generates $74,000 towards "yeshiva expenses", that gives the yeshiva just under 2.6 million to pay a few principles, maintenance workers, Secretary, utilities, mortgage ect. It would appear to cover the cost. That being said I don't believe ANY yeshiva is willing to open their books in an effort to justify why tuition is so high. I for one would really appreciate seeing that.
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 19 2014, 6:50 pm
MaBelleVie wrote:
I've never heard of school paying off the books. How common is this?


When 93% of a community is on medicaid, how common do you think paying anyone completely on the books is? The median age is 12 so there are lots of community teachers. You are a frequent poster, how come this is news?
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causemommysaid




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 19 2014, 7:48 pm
how can a school get away with paying off the books?

it seems to be way too fraudulent to get away with for long.

dont schools get audited?
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MaBelleVie




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 19 2014, 7:53 pm
Squishy wrote:
When 93% of a community is on medicaid, how common do you think paying anyone completely on the books is? The median age is 12 so there are lots of community teachers. You are a frequent poster, how come this is news?


I don't recall anyone discussing schools paying off the books. Maybe I missed those topics. How does a school get funding under those circumstances?

(There aren't too many communities where 93% are on medicaid, and I can BH say that I've certainly never lived anywhere like that)
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ronbonboo




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 19 2014, 8:12 pm
My high school was $8k a year, I graduated in '05. We had about 20 girls in our school and 40 boys in the boys division so that's 60x8=$480k. There was a principal, an asst principal, 2 secretaries, math, science, social studies, and English teacher plus a French teacher and an I rot teacher plus 2 other rabbeim and 2 rebbetzins teaching. Plus 2 buildings rent (boys division, and girls division), plus books and utilities not to mention a gym teacher, and it included extra curricular activities such as production and sports, it adds up quickly. Everything was on the books as well. Of course 98% didn't pay full tuition but that's besides the point. Neve almost had to close their doors the teachers went months without a paycheck, you don't realize the basic costs. Let's just say that you were sending your kid to a babysit so $5 for 830-430 m-thu and 830-230 f that's 5x38=190x4(weeks a month)=760x10(months in a school year)=$7,600. That is not even 1 teachers salary let alone rent/mortgage, utilities, books, office staff, computers etc. so before being quick to judge...
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ronbonboo




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 19 2014, 8:13 pm
There is no way a school would be accredited if they were paying the staff off the books. My kids will only attend an accredited school.
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 19 2014, 10:06 pm
MaBelleVie wrote:
I don't recall anyone discussing schools paying off the books. Maybe I missed those topics. How does a school get funding under those circumstances?

(There aren't too many communities where 93% are on medicaid, and I can BH say that I've certainly never lived anywhere like that)


Have you ever visited communities where 93% are on medicaid? If you have and looked around you will have seen very refined ladies without a hair out of place and kids dressed beautifully. If you were invited into the homes you will have seen gorgeous furniture and silver even in the young couples homes. If you do the math, something doesn't work when coupled with 93% medicaid, roughly 40% on section 8 and 30% on food stamps. Most of the teachers come from the community itself. The median age is 12 so there is a higher than normal percentage working in the schools. How is it possible to maintain that standard of loving and qualify for aid without working off the books? You tell me another way.

Can you please tell me what funding you are talking about? Books from the government are not tied to budget. School nurses are not tied to budget. Free lunches are not tied to budget. Other government give aways like computers and smart boards are not tied to budget.
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