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What can I do to help my Yeshiva son choose a college degree
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Bruria




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 21 2014, 7:51 pm
If he is a math person , I would suggest engineering, computer science, accounting, these are careers that only require a bachelors and are well paid in general.
You could search online , look at universities web sites to see what interests him.
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MaBelleVie




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 21 2014, 8:28 pm
He will need core classes in order to earn his bachelor's degree, and that's a perfect way to figure out what he enjoys and where his strengths lie. Let him start the first semester with cores. He will see which subjects interest him most and which are not his speed. He can also speak with the career counselor on campus at that point.

There is absolutely no reason to settle on a career before he has taken a single college level class. Doing so is probably to his detriment.
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sky




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 21 2014, 8:40 pm
There are places that will help you figure out what you should do. Not just a written test. But auditory, visual. Such as they will punch a hole in a folded paper and ask you how many times the hole repeats.
To see how a person's mind thinks.
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 21 2014, 9:27 pm
gggo wrote:
Thank you Chaiz for Glassdoor and BLS.gov

I will check both sites.

I am against him starting college without any idea of what he wants to do. I do feel strongly that he must have a clear goal before he starts college. He is a fairly sheltered yeshiva boy & college will be an extreme culture shock. I think having a strong goal can help him stay grounded & focused on the end results.

I heartily disagree with this and have some life experience backing my opinion. If he is such a sheltered yeshiva boy then there is really no way for him to have a clear goal before he starts - or at least, alternative ways of self-exploration will be a lot harder and time-consuming.

If you want to reduce culture shock let him do at least his first year in Touro (they have a lot of scholarships available if that is the concern) it is largely composed of yeshiva graduates, many frum teachers, compatible schedule, etc.
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mummiedearest




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 21 2014, 9:38 pm
gggo wrote:
Career counselor sounds like a good plan.

Can anyone recommend one?

I googled miles but did not get any hits.

I am NOT looking to choose his career but because of his background he needs more hand holding than the average teen.

I DO want to help him find a career which HE will enjoy and which will help him support a family without a constant struggle


hand holding is just fine, but you can't set strict rules about this right now. you want him to go to college, but you also want him to have a goal first. those two rules contradict each other. some kids have set goals from the time they're three, and some need college to help them decide. I have a relative who wanted to be a vet FOREVER. he lasted one year in vet school, switched to business school, and is happy with his choice. don't force him to have a goal yet, he may a)never start college, b) continue with his original goal even if he sees it doesn't work down the road, c) hate his goal, feel like a failure, and not do well enough to graduate, d)switch goals every semester and spend an eternity in college because the goal has been the most important thing since the beginning, and he can't afford to choose the wrong goal, e)fill in the blank. seriously, his background doesn't mean he needs his mother's management. here's what he has to learn in order to handle college: 1) that he makes his own decisions, 2) those decisions often need to be made before deadlines, 3) which decisions have deadlines to them, 4) which college employee will help him make which kind of decisions, 5) how to make his own appointments with said college employees, 6) how to be an adult. none of this involves his mother holding his hand. now it's time for the college employees to hold his hand when necessary. that means talking to his advisor when there are questions, talking to a career counselor and taking an aptitude test to help him decide on a major, speaking to the financial aid people to work out any scholarships, dealing with the bursar and registrar by himself, buying his own schoolbooks, arranging for his own internships, looking for extra educational opportunities, etc. all of this will be done with college employees, not you. and that's appropriate. he can't have his mother holding his hand about college things, it will hinder him. you can be emotionally supportive, and you can tell him you're proud of him. and you can tell him that you accept whatever career choice he makes. help him get into college, and make sure he meets an advisor to find out who does what. then let him deal with it.
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mummiedearest




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 21 2014, 9:46 pm
seeker wrote:
I heartily disagree with this and have some life experience backing my opinion. If he is such a sheltered yeshiva boy then there is really no way for him to have a clear goal before he starts - or at least, alternative ways of self-exploration will be a lot harder and time-consuming.

If you want to reduce culture shock let him do at least his first year in Touro (they have a lot of scholarships available if that is the concern) it is largely composed of yeshiva graduates, many frum teachers, compatible schedule, etc.


speaking as a touro grad, I would specifically not recommend this. and this is because touro is arranged for those who have specific career goals in mind. it does not allow the same amount of exploration that other colleges do, and their scheduling is only good for those who work full-time. once you get past core courses (and a lot of people test out of some of them), the advanced courses are all at night. touro is great for full-time workers who know for a fact that they want to go for PT (or a different major), but is LOUSY for those who aren't inspired by any particular field. I am an example of one of those people. I finally got my bachelor's after 12 years. granted, I took some time off after each of my three kids, but when I went back, scheduling was tough. at some point, transferring to another college is not worth it (other colleges either won't honor all the credits you took, or have a completely different set of core courses, meaning you have to take more credits total than you would if you stayed put). touro is really not a good starter college for one who needs guidance.
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 21 2014, 10:14 pm
But if you're looking for a gentle transition from yeshiva, that is the way to go, and if you end up with a wrong class for transfer you can cross that bridge when you come to it. I also went to Touro and there were plenty of students who did not have a clear goal or switched midstream, or transferred to other colleges. I doubt there are many colleges that would not honor touro's 101-level courses.
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singleagain




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 21 2014, 11:46 pm
http://www.whatcareerisrightfo.....t.php

this is a basic career aptitude test, there are others out there, maybe check a few out and have him take one, but only one, bc you don't want to overwhelm him, especially if he takes five tests and gets five answers
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mummiedearest




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 21 2014, 11:49 pm
seeker wrote:
But if you're looking for a gentle transition from yeshiva, that is the way to go, and if you end up with a wrong class for transfer you can cross that bridge when you come to it. I also went to Touro and there were plenty of students who did not have a clear goal or switched midstream, or transferred to other colleges. I doubt there are many colleges that would not honor touro's 101-level courses.


seeker, I really do not think touro is a good choice. sometimes it's better to dive in to another situation, knowing it will be an adjustment. touro really enables its students to remain in high school mode. if he wants a gentle transition from yeshiva, he may want to learn part time in a yeshiva while attending college. but going to touro leaves a lot of the students underprepared for a professional environment.
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gittelchana




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 22 2014, 12:07 am
gggo wrote:
Where do I start?

Boro Park type yeshiva high school. He will be graduating 12th grade this year. His Yeshiva gives regents.
He is a smart kid. He likes reading, cars & technology.

How can he figure out what he would be interested in?

Which degrees will give him the opportunity to earn $150,000 or more?

I called Brooklyn College for help but they said they will only assist current students not incoming freshman. They told me he should speak to his school counselor. Yeah right- What school counselor??!!

Any ideas?

Thank you so much


He won't be successful at anything he doesn't really want to do, no matter how much they pay. First, he has to think about it and decide what interests him in the long run.

If he likes cars, he can become a mechanic. Or a car dealer. There's a whole world of cars from making them to first market, second market etc. all the way to recycling the parts. Wink

If he's into technology, he can become a computer engineer, a game or app producer etc.

But he has to really want it.
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chaiz




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 22 2014, 3:45 am
gggo wrote:
He has used Khan Academy for trig this past year.

I will let him know about Edx.org

Thank you


Kahn Academy has a computer science segment on their site. That is why I mentioned it; he can go there to get a sense of what the field is about.
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saw50st8




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 22 2014, 5:11 am
Engineering is a great field and you can get a good job with a bachelors. But not $150,000. That's being a bit over reaching.

If you want more information on engineering, PM me. I'm a mechanical engineer, my husband is a mechanical engineer (in a different type of field) and my BIL is an electrical engineer. I can also put him in contact with computer engineers, civil engineers and chemical engineers.

ETA: Many engineering schools are mostly men, so your son will have less of an adjustment in terms of dealing with women. I was frequently the only woman in my class. There are also usually plenty of frum men there.


Last edited by saw50st8 on Fri, Aug 22 2014, 7:31 am; edited 1 time in total
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amother


 

Post Fri, Aug 22 2014, 6:40 am
He should ask if he can shadow some men in your community who have jobs that might be interesting to him. I strongly believe that people need to see what the job involves in real life rather than deciding on a career based on what college classes they enjoy. The skills and personality required to be successful at the job are often pretty different from those required to be successful in the class.

(I'm speaking as someone who's back in school at age 40 because my career didn't suit me. In my 20s I invested a lot of time and money into getting a degree in a field that's too stressful for my personality, and I finally decided I can't do it anymore. Now I'm going for a degree in a field where I shadowed 8 different people to make sure I understood what it would be like and that I would enjoy going to work.)
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gggo




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 22 2014, 9:41 am
Wow! Thank you everyone for your advice.

mummiedearest- Starting in Touro may possibly be a good idea even if time may be wasted due to not being able to transfer all credits.

seeker- Thank you for helping me see how much I will need to back off once I help him get into college.

saw50st8 - Sorry for my ignorance. What do computer engineers, civil engineers, chemical engineers, mechanical engineers & electrical engineers do?

Sky- Your comment- There are places that will help you figure out what you should do. Not just a written test. But auditory, visual. Such as they will punch a hole in a folded paper and ask you how many times the hole repeats.
To see how a person's mind thinks.

How do I find this type of place? Something like your suggestion would probably be the best first step for him
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sky




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 22 2014, 10:31 am
I have no clue. I'm sorry I can't be more help. We had a bachur who was still learning tell us about it when he was transitioning to a job. It was in either NY or NJ. He paid for it. It was over 3 days and was very intense. but in the end he decided to go into accounting because logistically he felt it was the easiset for a frum person and he could get his degree fast.

Why does it have to be an actual college. Lots of people are successful with Touro degrees or even Ner Yisroel of Baltimore degrees followed by a masters or CPA. It might be less of a culture shock and easier to deal with shabbos and yomim tovim.

You can typically transfer a credits between schools. I have credits from all over - and managed to pull them all together for a degree.
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saw50st8




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 22 2014, 10:34 am
gggo wrote:


saw50st8 - Sorry for my ignorance. What do computer engineers, civil engineers, chemical engineers, mechanical engineers & electrical engineers do?


An engineers job is to design/build/fix things. I can't talk so much about computer engineers.

Mechanical Engineers deal with mechanical systems - engines, boilers, piping, pumps etc. As a mechanical engineer, you can work on the design side (designing systems, 3 D modeling etc), the build side (supervising crews building, building equipment) or fixing (looking at a failing system, figuring out what is wrong and how to fix it) or any combination thereof. My husband and I had the same education and work in totally different fields. Its a very versatile degree.

Civil Engineers work on bridges, buildings, soil, foundations, environmental issues etc. They can also do design, build or repair.

Electrical Engineers deal with electricity - producing, designing equipment for, fixing etc.

Chemical Engineers usually work on processes. So pharmaceuticals, water processing, environmental issues.

There are lots of interesting jobs out there and the jobs are available all over the world. Its a very versatile career. You can graduate with a bachelors and get a good job. A masters is not needed (depending on the type).
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amother


 

Post Fri, Aug 22 2014, 10:40 am
I thought there were plenty of yeshivish people in Brooklyn college?
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mummiedearest




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 22 2014, 10:41 am
just to clarify, sky, touro is an actual college. it's not the same as a yeshiva that offers a BTL. they do have core requirements and a number of degrees offered. however, the separate boys/girls environment is not the most conducive to being comfortable in a professional environment. the courses in those programs are more academic than those offered in SCAS, but there are definitely downsides.

some of the downsides I have seen:

-professors trying to play shadchan instead of teaching
-the guys tend to be uncomfortable with female professors
-the girls flirt (unknowingly) with the male professors
-shidduchim is such a prevalent idea within the college, and I think it distracts from the learning aspect. it really boxes people in in terms of their choice in major/courses/etc.
-certain departments are very small and will require a number of independent studies in order to graduate
-the segregation policies are taken too far (not allowing women into the library on monday even though there are women's courses scheduled then)
-if you aren't going for certain fields, you're not going to get a very good education.
-the departments for the less popular majors are not familiar with their own policies/requirements, which creates a huge issue for those who want to work towards a major.
-the advisors are not any more knowledgable than the students, in my experience. if you have a question, they have to call someone to get the answer. you're just as capable of going to see that person, and it's often faster to do that anyway. information gets confused when it goes through multiple channels. if you need a lot of guidance, I really can't recommend touro.

touro is a very good option for someone who wants a fast track to a masters or who wants a degree in a science. but they really have to know what they want to do.
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gggo




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 22 2014, 10:52 am
Sky- Thank you for the information. I will keep googling this as I think an evaluation can be very helpful for him.

Saw50st8 - Thank you for your explanations. I can see him finding this type of work interesting. I will pass this info on to him.
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marina




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 22 2014, 1:40 pm
whatever courses are needed to get into an MBA graduate program
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