Is it ok for them to ask us to limit electronics?

amother

Tue, Aug 26 2014, 9:06 am

We are going away for two days with my husbands brother, his wife and kids and my in laws. They aren't "frumer" than us. Their kids are younger than ours. We allow our kids to use iPads, ds etc. so now my brother in law asked my Dh yesterday if maybe we don't bring the electronics or limit them so there won't be fights and their kids won't beg to use them etc. Do we comply? Was it rude for them to ask?

imasinger

Tue, Aug 26 2014, 9:33 am

What would be rude is bringing something desirable and leaving young cousins out in the cold while engrossed in the games. Hopefully, your BIL is not requesting this because such rudeness has already happened at past family get togethers. If it has, it would be nice to apologize.

Totally reasonable. Good idea for all, including for your kids. School is starting soon.

I tell my kids, "you live without electronics on Shabbos; you can live without them when we are with family."

How about if they use them on the car rides to and from, and the devices basically stay in the car for the vacation? If you cannot give them enough attention once the littler ones are asleep, they could also have access then.

Last edited by imasinger on Tue, Aug 26 2014, 10:07 am; edited 1 time in total

morah

Tue, Aug 26 2014, 9:57 am

Totally reasonable. Presumably you are on vacation together for the purpose of enjoying each others company. You know, at my school, we have a policy of collecting electronics at the beginning of a Shabbaton (and I mean from the beginning of Friday, not just a few minutes before Shabbos) and we don't give them back until after the last motzei Shabbos activity. This is to ensure that they make the most of the program and live through it instead of instagramming it. Sure they grumble, and some try to sneak stuff past us, but the rule has mostly been a success, and probably 95% of the kids are glad we did it in the end.

Barbara

Tue, Aug 26 2014, 10:26 am

morah wrote:

But, of course, that has nothing to do with what the BIL said. He didn't say "let's all leave our electronics home, so we can spend our limited time together." He said "I don't want my kids using electronics, and the easiest way for me to enforce the rules I want for my kids is to impose them on your kids as well." Even though OP's kids are older, and things may be appropriate for them that are inappropriate for younger children.

Perhaps OP should call them back and say, "while we're at it, I know that your kids are 3 and 1, but since I need to tell my 9 year old boy to wear tzitzit and a kippa, make sure your 1 year old is in them as well. And that your 3 year old girl is in heavy tights and long sleeves."

OP should limit screen time on vacation because its a vacation, and time to do other things. Not because it would make a younger cousin, for whom it may not be appropriate, jealous.

morah

Tue, Aug 26 2014, 10:37 am

Barbara wrote:

I agree that it's not ok to ask people to make your parenting job easier. You can't ask the world to stop eating junk food and dressing their kids in designer duds just because you're too lazy to tell your kids no. I do think the request to limit electronics on a family vacation is reasonable. But that means she can still decide when those limits will be in effect. She doesn't have to limit those times to after cousins' bedtime, and if she does let them play for an hour in front of them it's up to their parents to do their job and handle their children appropriately. But it's not a crazy request and OP would be wise to agree to it within reason. And make it clear that she's doing it for making-memories reasons and not making-your-parenting-more-convenient reasons.

chocolate chips

Tue, Aug 26 2014, 10:37 am

I would "listen".

Besides I don't think this was a request for him it was a general suggestion for family time. You will be together on vacation do your kids really need the ipad and ds with them? Let them enjoy some good old board games and garden games with their cousins.

You can bring the ipad and ds for the car only, for travelling.

Barbara

Tue, Aug 26 2014, 10:50 am

Simple1 wrote:

You have some points, but I think the hosts should be able to decide what they want their own home. They didn't even forbid it, they asked to limit it, which is what polite guests would do anyway.

Why do you think they're staying with the BIL? OP said they were going away with her BIL's family and her parents in law.

vintagebknyc

Tue, Aug 26 2014, 10:57 am

Barbara wrote:

except your analogy doesn't work. this is equivalent to OP's kids eating giant chocolate bars in front of the BIL's kids who don't usually eat that stuff. BIL said he wants to limit electronics so there won't be "fights and their kids won't beg to use them etc."

I don't think that's too much to ask.

5*Mom

Tue, Aug 26 2014, 11:05 am

IDK, I would never ask someone else to limit or change what they give to their children or allow them to do because my children don't normally get or get to do those things, not even my siblings. It's my issue. So while I do agree that the concept of limiting electronic devices on vacation is reasonable, I don't think it's reasonable to have made that request of someone else, even a sibling. And I am close with my siblings.

Barbara

Tue, Aug 26 2014, 11:09 am

vintagebknyc wrote:

Right. The BIL has asked OP not to allow her kids to do things that she has deemed appropriate for her kids, because he hasn't deemed them appropriate for his (because of age or because he doesn't want his kids using electronics). IOW, the OP should accept her BIL's parenting rules. Or OP's children should be expected to act as if they are years younger than they actually are, so as not to upset young children who haven't learned that there are things that they can only do when they are older.

To use your food analogy, its your next door neighbor asking you not to give your kids Chobani yogurt in the park, because she keeps cholov yisrael.

Why does the stricter rule always win? Maybe the answer is for BIL to loosen his restrictions while on vacation. No fights then, either.

5*Mom

Tue, Aug 26 2014, 11:15 am

BIL will need to learn to teach his children not to fight over something that isn't theirs and to accept a "no" without begging if his answer to them is "no." Alternatives are that he deal with a little unpleasant begging if the "no" is so important to him, or relax his rules and allow them some time with the electronics. Any way you slice it, it's BIL's issue, not OP's. I'm not saying there's no room here for OP to be considerate; of course there is. I'm commenting on the propriety of BIL's request.

ETA I'd say the same about the chocolate. Sometimes we get chocolate, sometimes they get chocolate. We don't all have to have it at the same time.

imasinger

Tue, Aug 26 2014, 11:19 am

In etiquette, the maxim is pretty much always that the stricter rules win. The object of a group trip is for it to be inclusive of everyone, as much as possible.

Also, older people are expected to tolerate limitations better than younger people.

Hence, it would be rude for a few kids to spend an afternoon with a soccer ball if two cousins who loved to play had broken legs.

It would be rude to plan a white water rafting trip for the adults and leave the 12 year olds waiting in the car.

It would be rude to limit ALL outings to something only toddlers would like. Or to things that exclude toddlers if there are some along.

It is rude to serve treats that some cannot eat, particularly if they are little.

These things should not have to be requested. They are basic courtesy.

5*Mom

Tue, Aug 26 2014, 11:25 am

imasinger wrote:

I agree, these things should not have to be requested and they would be considered rude under most circumstances. That doesn't make it okay to make the request. If it were me, and there were no extenuating circumstances (which there very well could be with teens on an extended family vacation) I'd leave the gadgets at home and I certainly wouldn't give my children chocolate that other children weren't getting. But I would never request or expect that of someone else and I'd know that I'd have to deal with it if it came up because life is like that sometimes. Well, often.

gittelchana

Tue, Aug 26 2014, 11:30 am

amother wrote:

I think that's a fair request which you should try to accommodate as best as you can while around them.

ora_43

Tue, Aug 26 2014, 11:32 am

Barbara wrote:

Or OP's children should be expected to act as if they are years younger than they actually are, so as not to upset young children who haven't learned that there are things that they can only do when they are older.

You make it sound as if the BIL asked that the older children stick to playing with crayons and coloring books. There are age-appropriate activities for older kids that don't involve using electronics.

Quote:

To use your food analogy, its your next door neighbor asking you not to give your kids Chobani yogurt in the park, because she keeps cholov yisrael.

More like if you and your next-door neighbor decide together to take your children out together on a trip, and she asks if you could both bring parve snacks to avoid jealousy. It's a one-time request, meant to make the trip smoother for both families.

What does it matter whose parenting issue it is? Right or wrong, BIL doesn't think he's going to be able to teach his kids not to whine over an ipad between now and whenever they're going. (I can sympathize - IME it takes a loooong time to teach kids not to whine.)

Don't get me wrong, OP, I don't think you're obligated to go without electronics completely (although limiting electronics use on a family trip is basic courtesy, IMHO, otherwise relatives are likely to feel ignored or like their company is unwanted). But I don't think it was unreasonable of BIL to ask. I think he's probably just trying to make things nicer for everyone.