Is it ok for them to ask us to limit electronics?

amother

Tue, Aug 26 2014, 11:39 am

If the BIL's kids in question are truly 2-4, they will have tantrums for the electronics no matter how good or involved the parents (BIL and SIL) are. To make it a pleasant vacation, you would need an iPad and iPhone for ever kid. Plus, the effort it takes to make sure they don't break the electronics at that age.

In other words, parents that don't want their kids to watch movies need to tell their playgroups at this age that there can be absolutely no movies or I need to find another place. Since this is a family vacation and not a controlled environment, you cannot ask a 3 year old to sit it out when there older cousins are playing. And, you cannot sit on top of the 3 year old to not grab it 24/7, you cannot stop the anger of the ten year old when the little ones do grab and you cannot stop a three year old from having a tantrum.

To be honest, bringing electronics will make a miserable vacation for the older cousins, little cousins, parents and grandparents. Due to the age gap, the only way to resolve is to limit the older kids in this case. The big ones can have an 'X exciting gift' waiting at home for them when they return for giving up some fun for the sake of their cousins. You cannot reason though with a two year old whose cousin has an iPad.

Is it "fair" to ask the older kids to forgo their fun a bit for the little ones? Perhaps yes and perhaps no. You have to compromise when it comes to family especially family vacations. You, too, will be miserable when the two year old makes your ten year old loose a game or breaks something accidentally.

ora_43

Tue, Aug 26 2014, 11:45 am

5*Mom wrote:

I agree, these things should not have to be requested and they would be considered rude under most circumstances. That doesn't make it okay to make the request. If it were me, and there were no extenuating circumstances (which there very well could be with teens on an extended family vacation) I'd leave the gadgets at home and I certainly wouldn't give my children chocolate that other children weren't getting. But I would never request or expect that of someone else and I'd know that I'd have to deal with it if it came up because life is like that sometimes. Well, often.

Really?? Even with a sibling?

I would totally ask.

I think there's a world of difference here between "ask" and "expect." I agree that expecting is unreasonable.

I would ask because I think that often, relatives with no kids/older kids would be more than happy to make the trip everyone-friendly, but just don't know how. If they knew that, say, going to a certain restaurant would be stressful with my kids, they would prefer to eat elsewhere. I think that if I didn't speak up about something like that, and then my kids acted miserable and bothered people, my relatives would be rightfully annoyed that I didn't say something.

amother

Tue, Aug 26 2014, 11:50 am

Op here
Were staying In a hotel with them so I've decided to bring electronics and they will use them in the evening when we're alone in the room. Also for the car. BIL asked bec his kids end up getting jealous and asking when is it his turn and they have to referee it etc. to be honest, we have full day activities planned anyway so I dont really think it'll be an issue. I was just surprised bec I don't think I would ever ask another parent to do something differently. I would mind my own business and tell me kids he has this we don't, and bring something else for him to do.

marina

Tue, Aug 26 2014, 12:50 pm

I don't think that I would actually ask the other parents to leave their electronics at home, but I probably should, because the other option that I would certainly choose is to decline this trip altogether.

If I have little kids and your children are going to be eating chocolate bars for breakfast in front of them or playing on your electronics 24/7 or if you are going to be buying them fancy expensive things at every little stop, yeah, that's not going to be fun for me. I'm probably not going to ask you to change your parenting, because I'm a bit of a coward, but there's no reason I should bother going with you if the whole experience will make me miserable.

So when you ask me to come next time, I'll just say, so sorry, we are out of town that week. Is that better than asking you to keep your stuff at home?

ElTam

Tue, Aug 26 2014, 1:17 pm

We have a rule of no electronics when there are guests over for playdates. If you are spending time together, it's to spend time together, not to stare at a screen. I would not be offended by the request and would have no trouble complying.

We once met my BIL and family for a day and a half get-together in a hotel. Brother spend several hours watching a football game and nieces were on electronic devices. What a waste of time, gas money, and hotel.

amother

Tue, Aug 26 2014, 1:18 pm

When kids are allowed to do whatwver the heck they want as marina said "eat candy bars for breakfast" yah, families like that are no good to hang out with. But those aren't the parents asking for advice. So clearly what I wrote is what I meant. My kids would play on their electronics after dinner, as we will be out all day. I'm pretty sure that's slightly different than letting your kids eat as they please and buying them expensive things at every rest stop. Let's not make our own assumptions About people... Wow

HonesttoGod

Tue, Aug 26 2014, 1:23 pm

marina wrote:

I am inclined to agree with this.
Honestly I am very strict with my kids about things we do and things we don't. I don't care if all my nieces and nephews are eating ice cream, my kids will not get until they have eaten a real meal, something I have said is food. Same with all other things.

My kids probably hate me for it but why should I deny my family a fun meal/experience otherwise just because I know that so-and-so will let her kids eat candy. I always tell my kids it is their mother who has to clean up their vomit and take care of them when they get sick from eating so much junk.

Honestly sometimes it is better for all to say things than to not and then be upset. So op if he wouldn't have said anything but rather said to his kid when he wanted a turn "well we are on vacation and it is not nice to play games on vacation when others cant join in" you would have felt stupid. Really stupid.

We recently went away with a group of people and since a few of them didn't have kids they decided the trip of the day could not be geared to kids. Because it is rude to them. Except what they chose was completely not good for my kids and so I went on my own trip and they went on theirs and we met up at the end of the day. It is all about compromising and being respectful (not that I thought they were respectful, I was actually upset with them for various reasons but we got over it and had a good time).

debsey

Tue, Aug 26 2014, 1:28 pm

marina wrote:

I agree with everything marina is saying (except the biit about being a bit of a coward! Really, Marina??) this is OP's brother, not a stranger! He's just stating a preference not judging her parenting or frumkeit! Imagine if there was a choice of restaurants to eat at, and his kids are allergic to dairy. Does it make sense to say can we please go to the fleishig restaurant? And OP's compromise is perfect. We are bringing the stuff, but only when not around your kids.

granolamom

Tue, Aug 26 2014, 1:45 pm

when we stayed with family for a week before pesach I tried to limit our use of electronics to our bedroom. I felt that it was ok for our kids to use my ipad and such in the privacy of our room and I tried not to cause issues for my sil/bil, otoh, they did not ask us to limit anything, even when my kids did eventually bring the electronics out into the playroom.
Ideally, the host and the guest will respect each other's lifestyles for the short time they are together. a little bit more/less electronics use will not harm anyone long term.

imasinger

Tue, Aug 26 2014, 2:17 pm

amother wrote:

Op here again:
To clarify; I am the one who planned this trip. I scheduled full days of activities and trips. They know our schedule. It's not like it would be 48 hours of screen time. They were referring to the evenings when we would be in the hotel together. I decided we will bring them and only use them in our room, when no cousins around.

That sounds lke a fine way to handle it.

I suspect part of the issue is that you did all the work arranging things, and now feel like they are making additional demands.

Maybe next tme, ask them to plan some, so you don't have to do so much?

Anyway, great solution. Go, you. Have a wonderful time.

amother

Wed, Aug 27 2014, 3:56 am

I actually think that this is a really good lesson for the little kids about boundaries. I get that they're young, but you have to teach them sometime. Better young than never.

When I was a kid, I knew that other people had things that I didn't get "a turn" with. Not everything is communal property. A friend's porcelain doll or an older cousin's walkman weren't things I could touch or use. Period. End of discussion. And I moved on and now have boundaries. At age 4, the kids should be old enough to be taught, and have it enforced, that something that belongs to someone else isn't something that they automatically get to touch, play with, or handle. This is not a kibbutz in the 60's or communist Russia. Nor should their older cousins ignore them in favor of electronics.

I spend time with my family - some of whom are Jewish (and kosher) and some of whom aren't. The kosher-only people do not make everyone else eat kosher, but accept that this is their thing and therefore their responsibility. Its actually pretty helpful for their kids, who don't whine (too much.) I think the kids will grow up to be stronger because they understand from a young age that not everything is for them and that's Ok.

FranticFrummie

Wed, Aug 27 2014, 4:14 am

Last time I was in Israel we stayed by friends of mine in Beitar. Very frum Kollel people. DD brought her DS along, and I didn't think anything of it. After a couple of days my friend drew me aside and quietly asked if DD could put the DS away, as her younger kids were getting way too fascinated by it.

I explained to DD that this family has different rules about electronics, and that we should show respect to their house rules. She understood immediately, hid it in the bottom of her suitcase, and brought out a couple of dolls.

My friend was SO relieved that I didn't make a stink about it! (Like I would. Rolling Eyes

) It was a no brainer, and I just felt bad that she felt put on the spot in the first place, because of my not taking their hashkafa more into consideration. Honestly, I was so busy helping out around the house I hadn't even noticed how much they were playing with the game.

These people are like family to me, and I hated to think that I had upset them in any way. I was more than happy to make things right.

SRS

Wed, Aug 27 2014, 7:25 am

I can't think of anything that makes a family event more unpleasant than going out with people hooked to their phones, much less hooked up to any other electronics and that is without having to break up fights over electronics or keep your kids away from other people's electronics. Yes, it is important for children to learn boundaries and limits, but on why have to deal with that on a family vacation. . . or in our case, at the occasional family dinner out! My kids know full well that they aren't going to get a turn with someone else's phone and the game on it and don't even ask or even gather around, but the lack of interaction that happens when electronics are thrown into the mix is painful.

I love my computer as much as the next, but I'm fairly certain that it wires the brain differently. I think a vacation is a great time to push the reset button. But if you are going to bring them along and limit them to your hotel room, I guess that isn't a problem. But the request is not at all unreasonable and it must come from somewhere. I would not be offended by it nor would I read any frumkeit into it (in our cases we are far more modern). I would just assume that they want to vacation with you without additional discipline challenges and without the challenge of having to interact with people that are wired in to electronics.

amother

Wed, Aug 27 2014, 11:00 am

Is it really so common to bring along "electronics" when vacationing? I guess I'm surprised by how many people on this thread seem to think so.

We're a no-TV family but because of kids with ADHD we've been using videos too much this summer. I just told the kids that there are no more videos for 2 months because I don't like the effect it has on their behavior. (Sure they're quiet while they're watching the video, but afterward their behavior is much worse.) I really don't like what "electronics" do to my kids (and to me as well). Am I a dinosaur??

33055

Wed, Aug 27 2014, 11:53 am

Barbara wrote:

Why does the stricter rule always win? Maybe the answer is for BIL to loosen his restrictions while on vacation. No fights then, either.

Sometimes the stricter rule must win because of school rules. Once I give my word that my child will not be in an environment with unsupervised internet, I am without the option to loosen my rules without effecting my integrity. My word must mean something.

debsey

Wed, Aug 27 2014, 12:32 pm

Squishy wrote:

We were hosted by my brother's family, and he has MUCH looser rules about internet, iPads, secular videos. I didn't say a word to him - he's the host - he has every right to have whatever standard he wishes to have in his home. I made my kids a deal - if they don't watch things on my nephew's iPad (I signed a paper with their school and I can't be a liar, plus my nephew's idea of "totally clean and appropriate" and mine are vastly different) then at the end of the trip, they will be allowed to watch ONE secular movie from my brother's collection (a movie that I vetted and that I know to be clean).

Well, BOY did I get a speech from my brother about being a "typical Lakewood hypocrite" claiming not to watch movies but then letting my kids watch one - I didn't want to say - well, your kids watch things DAILY that I would not subject my children to (the violence! the gore! the language! even forgetting tznius...) and we made a deal - but I felt that it was the best compromise. I just said "you're entitled to your opinion" and left it at that.

Just hearing "no, no, no" for a week would make my kids resent it. This way, we had a deal, I allowed them to have a tiny taste of "forbidden fruit", and they really were honorable about not watching the other stuff. I consider myself a wise mother, NOT a hypocrite. One son's reaction - THAT's a secular movie? I liked (insert your popular Jewish knockoff movie here) better........
So, what do you think? Am I a hypocrite? I would consider it poor manners to impose my standard on my brother for a week, when he's hosting me.