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Why I hate frugal living
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amother


 

Post Wed, Aug 27 2014, 10:32 pm
I just ordered a copy of the Tightwad Gazette (on the recommendation of a poster here). Now I'm ready to throw it in the trash in disgust. (I bought it with a B&N gift card so I don't feel I wasted money.)

First of all I hate the smug competitiveness of it all. "You spend $80 a week on groceries? Well I spend $53.79 a week to feed a family of 9."

Secondly it doesn't take into account lifestyle factors. Yes, it's cheaper to eat at home than to eat out. Yes, you can survive with one pair of shoes per year. But some people enjoy eating out once in a while. Some people enjoy owning more than 1 pair of shoes.

I used to be extremely frugal and it only caused shalom bayis problems. I used to scrutinize grocery receipts to figure out how we could save 10 cents a week and my husband hated it. So now we just buy what we need but we don't agonize over pennies.

Also I have terrible mazel with things like sales or buying in advance or even getting hand-me-downs when we need them. For example I belong to a community exchange list on FB but whenever someone posts things I could use someone else already "called" it first. It's not like I hang around FB all day reading every new post.

I have given away tons of stuff on the same group but somehow whenever I need something, someone else gets it first.

I have no storage space. So I try not to keep anything we are not using now. I'd rather give it to someone who could use it now. Of course that means I will probably need to spend money later if we ever need it again.

If I try to buy something in advance for the next season, my mazel, it won't fit or I'll forget about it by then.

I have tried selling stuff on ebay but the hassle involved in listing it and then shipping out when someone buys it was just not worth the small sums that would come in.

YOu know what? I like being able to buy my kids a small treat when we're out shopping, or bring them home a surprise. So shoot me for my frivolousness.

I could easier pick up extra work and earn a few extra dollars that way than break my back doing extreme things to save pennies. (Yes, I'm fortunate that I have a side job that I can do on a freelance basis for extra income. I do as much or as little work as I feel like. Not everyone has that.)

I do like making certain things from scratch and I like the taste of homemade food but again my time and energy are limited. Frugality be d***d.

Sorry, that was a vent.

No offense to all the champion frugalistas on this board who can do it successfully and make it look easy.
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The Happy Wife




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 27 2014, 10:41 pm
First of all, people spending 50 a week on food for a family of 9 are probably not keeping kosher or CY and PY.

Also, people scrimping on that level probably either enjoy it or need to scrimp.

I agree, it's probably not worth it to make yourself crazy over 10 cents. And your extra indulgences sounds nice and reasonable as long as you can afford it.

Don't make yourself crazy of you don't have to, but realize that some people are literally counting their change out of necessity and indulgences are just not an option. Be grateful if you are not in that situation bit don't feel bad.
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amother


 

Post Wed, Aug 27 2014, 11:04 pm
The Happy Wife wrote:
First of all, people spending 50 a week on food for a family of 9 are probably not keeping kosher or CY and PY.

Also, people scrimping on that level probably either enjoy it or need to scrimp.

I agree, it's probably not worth it to make yourself crazy over 10 cents. And your extra indulgences sounds nice and reasonable as long as you can afford it.

Don't make yourself crazy of you don't have to, but realize that some people are literally counting their change out of necessity and indulgences are just not an option. Be grateful if you are not in that situation bit don't feel bad.


You misunderstand me.

It's not that we are so well-off and comfortable that we can afford to splurge.

It's that some people are talented at being frugalistas. Some people are talented at other things. In my case I am talented at something that enables me to bring in extra cash now and then (not a lot mind you) but NOT at all talented in doing the things that frugals do.

If I could pull it off successfully, I would. But I can't and if I try it's a source of added stress I don't need.
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TwinsMommy




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 27 2014, 11:10 pm
I'm the same way--- I'm self employed so my income varies. Let's say I need another $1000 this week. I'd MUCH rather **make** that money than try to **save** that amount. But many people feel the opposite. For me it's less stressful to call some clients, sell some more product, take on some more clients than it is to make dinner based on only what's in the cabinets.

I'd rather read penniless parenting and admire her style and know she's in a different camp than I than try (unsuccessfully) to be like her. Smile

So I never read the Tightwad gazette and don't plan to. But I have a TON of business building/ work at home books. Smile
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chatz




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 27 2014, 11:15 pm
I tell my husband we need to cut expenses. He tells me we need more income.

It comes down to the same thing: spending less than what you make. Either you spend less or you make more.
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amother


 

Post Wed, Aug 27 2014, 11:16 pm
TwinsMommy wrote:
I'm the same way--- I'm self employed so my income varies. Let's say I need another $1000 this week. I'd MUCH rather **make** that money than try to **save** that amount. But many people feel the opposite. For me it's less stressful to call some clients, sell some more product, take on some more clients than it is to make dinner based on only what's in the cabinets.

I'd rather read penniless parenting and admire her style and know she's in a different camp than I than try (unsuccessfully) to be like her. Smile

So I never read the Tightwad gazette and don't plan to. But I have a TON of business building/ work at home books. Smile


good point. I would be much better off figuring out how to expand my business than trying to become more frugal.

I can't make an extra $1000 at will, but I can make an extra $100 happen. Wink
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amother


 

Post Wed, Aug 27 2014, 11:27 pm
There are many levels to frugality.
I consider myself to be frugal but not to an extreme. We try to buy whats on sale, use very little disposables, dont buy dry clean only clothes (besides dh's shabbos suits)

We dont have a grocery budget, we only buy what we need and I have no problem buying a danish if I pass the bakery. We dont buy end of season sales for next year because like you I'll forget about it or it wont fit.
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amother


 

Post Wed, Aug 27 2014, 11:33 pm
amother wrote:
There are many levels to frugality.
I consider myself to be frugal but not to an extreme. We try to buy whats on sale, use very little disposables, dont buy dry clean only clothes (besides dh's shabbos suits)

We dont have a grocery budget, we only buy what we need and I have no problem buying a danish if I pass the bakery. We dont buy end of season sales for next year because like you I'll forget about it or it wont fit.


You're right.
Relatively speaking we're pretty frugal too.
We don't spend anywhere near $2000 a year on kids' clothing.
we don't own a car. we don't use cleaning ladies.
We do spend a lot on food, but I don't think we eat anything particularly fancy. Probably we buy too many crackers and yogurts.
We do use a lot of disposables.
For me, books like the TW gazette are more guilt-inducing than a source of reasonable money-saving ideas.
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ElTam




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 27 2014, 11:43 pm
You have to do what works for you. I am a big fan of the Tightwad Gazette, but the author says over and over and over that you have to find your own level. She gives the example of her friend who opts to live in a small apt and drive an inexpensive car so she and her husband can take long, fabulous vacations. Now, that's not what Amy D. and her husband wanted. They wanted a large family and for her to be a SAHM.

Pick the frugal things that work for you. Focus on what you are doing, not on all the other optional things that don't work for you. That's the whole point of the book. Not to feel deprived. Not to make choices that don't work for you. But to figure out what you need to do so that the money going out is less than the money coming in. Your choices are the ones that feel right to you. If someone else is spending less on groceries, gesunterheit. Don't feel guilt if that tactic doesn't work for you. That's not the point of the book. It's all about choices.

As my FIL says, "I drink cheap beer so I can eat expensive ice cream." The guy down the block may want expensive beer and cheap ice cream. If you can pay your bills and can sock away a little money each month for emergencies and for future expenses (bar mitzvah,wedding, whatever), then don't beat yourself up over what yenem is doing.

I don't do many things I did when I was a SAHM now that I work. I still use a lot of the techniques, but some just don't work. It's nothing to sweat or feel bad about.
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cfriedman2




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 28 2014, 12:17 am
If u can afford to not count ur spendings and are being responsible about it then so be it. If ur racking up debt and not putting money into savings/retirement then I would recommend both earning the extra income where you can AND learning to live below your means so u can save.
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Emotional




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 28 2014, 12:39 am
See, the problem is that at some point a person can become OCD about this.
I'm not talking about people experiencing a financial crisis ch"v. I'm talking about people who more or less make it to month, or are pinching pennies to save for a house, etc.
See, what is a luxury to one person is a necessity to another. One person is energetic, organized, and has the time to keep her house neat. The next person truly needs a few hours of cleaning help per week. One person satisfies her family's appetite with rice and beans. Another woman knows that her husband and kids will starve without something more substantial.
One woman can manage doing dishes 3x per day. For another woman disposables are crucial.
A person can come to question and agonize over every major and minor expenditure. It's almost like becoming anorexic, only with money instead of calories. Some restriction is wise, but restrict yourself too much and you're not surviving daily life anymore.
So the question is - how does one know where to draw the line?
Does my psychobabble make any sense?
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 28 2014, 6:44 am
Emotional wrote:
So the question is - how does one know where to draw the line?
Does my psychobabble make any sense?

You draw the line wherever it becomes "not worth it." And for many of us the line is always changing.

Not worth it - eg. someone saving for a house, so the point where they say, "I'd rather just buy disposables even if it means buying a house a couple of weeks later," or "I'd rather find a way to work another 2 hours a week and get some cleaning help."
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miami85




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 28 2014, 9:15 am
I hear your post. As much as we try to earn a little extra every month, HaShem finds a way of saying that's not on the agenda right now--from cancellations or an unexpected big ticket item.

I sometimes try to be extra frugal--using everything we have, buying in bulk when appropriate, accepting when people give us things, not throwing things out, shopping at consignment stores, and chapping in on sales.

My husband is also on the frugal side but he balances me out some what--when someone gives us something he knows what we won't/can't use and he will throw it out. He will spend a little bit more for convenience sake, throw things out when he knows it won't be used.

I think bottom line is that you have to find a balance that works for you. I've read Seraph's blog, sometimes for inspiration, and sometimes for a laugh (sorry), sometimes her ideas are clever, and sometimes I think--I'm not that desperate, or that talented. Even something she said around the time she had her baby--she wanted a homebirth (which cost more) because in the event c"v she would have a c-section it would mean she would recover slower and not be able to be as frugal in the long run. I'm no where near that ambitious, but the idea that you have to pick your frugal battles, knowing that saving here allows for more money to be spent at a different time.

Just think of it this way, a small splurge on your kids when you are at a thrift/discount store may mean that they are more patient and allow you to save by not rushing, missing key items and having to go a second time or buy it at a more expensive location.
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amother


 

Post Thu, Aug 28 2014, 10:36 am
miami85 wrote:
I hear your post. As much as we try to earn a little extra every month, HaShem finds a way of saying that's not on the agenda right now--from cancellations or an unexpected big ticket item.

I sometimes try to be extra frugal--using everything we have, buying in bulk when appropriate, accepting when people give us things, not throwing things out, shopping at consignment stores, and chapping in on sales.

My husband is also on the frugal side but he balances me out some what--when someone gives us something he knows what we won't/can't use and he will throw it out. He will spend a little bit more for convenience sake, throw things out when he knows it won't be used.

I think bottom line is that you have to find a balance that works for you. I've read Seraph's blog, sometimes for inspiration, and sometimes for a laugh (sorry), sometimes her ideas are clever, and sometimes I think--I'm not that desperate, or that talented. Even something she said around the time she had her baby--she wanted a homebirth (which cost more) because in the event c"v she would have a c-section it would mean she would recover slower and not be able to be as frugal in the long run. I'm no where near that ambitious, but the idea that you have to pick your frugal battles, knowing that saving here allows for more money to be spent at a different time.

Just think of it this way, a small splurge on your kids when you are at a thrift/discount store may mean that they are more patient and allow you to save by not rushing, missing key items and having to go a second time or buy it at a more expensive location.


Seraph's blog?
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LittleDucky




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 28 2014, 10:48 am
Seem the way I think about it, being frugal helps me to live a higher quality of life than if I bought things "whenever I need". By shopping sales, using coupons etc I have found that I have a little extra in my wallet. I can use some to pay off debts, put away in case something unexpected happens, and save towards something big, but also I can treat myself or my family.
If I didn't shop the way I do, I wouldn't be able to do all that!
Frugal living has to work for you. If you need disposables, fine- but make sure it fits in your budge and you try to get the best deal on them! (Same with everything else). And see where else in your budget you can be frugal. Cutting everything at once won't work unless you are in serious trouble financially. Pick one or two things and work up. Rome wasn't built in a day but if you don't start, the construction materials will still be in a pile 10 years from now.
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miami85




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 28 2014, 10:55 am
amother wrote:
Seraph's blog?


Yea it's called Penniless Parenting. she's mentioned it before.
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Volunteer




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 28 2014, 12:03 pm
I think the biggest problem with most of these money-saving ideas is that they cost more time.
For example, washing dishes for a large family is cheaper that using paper & plastic, but it takes more time.
Remember: Time is money. Some people (like me) tend to have more time than money, so many of these cost-saving measures are worth it for me. FOr someone who has more money than time, they are not worthwhile. ITA with the posters who said that if they enjoy their income-producing work, and it makes more money than it costs, it is preferable to earn more than to spend less.
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cookiecutter




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 28 2014, 12:24 pm
I agree with a lot of what's been posted. But I live pretty frugally and do the ebay thing so I'm posting to kind of pull it together.
ITA that you need to "find your level". I would even go a bit further and say that you have to enjoy "the hunt" in order to sustain it. I could never do something like collect cans, nor could I do something like buy an air conditioner and return it at the end of the summer. But there's a sweet spot in between, where the money is so easy and fun that I can't resist.
I can't keep track of seven credit cards, but I can take care of three. We get roughly a couple flights and like 10 hotel stays per year.
I can't buy/store/sell things I don't like, but I like tech and shoes, and I'm always shopping for baby stuff anyway so I buy and sell those. It brings in maybe $1,000 dollars a year, but it's like a hobby that makes money instead of costing money. And I don't keep the best stuff for myself, but I keep some good stuff for myself, and I justify it by selling the most profitable stuff.
Time is money, which is why you need to be aware of what you are saving and how much time it will take. Seeing it as a hobby (which only works if it actually is) helps when you are driving 20 minutes to get a laptop that will make you $50. It is not enough to make it worthwhile to drive 20 minutes to save $4 on paper towels.
I also find it empowering. I feel like even if I lost my job or a substantial portion of my income, I'd be able to make it in the short term with government programs + this kind of income.
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mandr




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 28 2014, 1:34 pm
You don't have to live completely frugally. You can pick an area and focus just on that. Like clothes. Or groceries. Or toiletries. Or entertainment/outtings.

This summer we focused on outtings. We did basically free stuff. We like to go away every Sunday somewhere. In the winter we did a lot of malls but that equals money. So this summer we did state and town parks, free exhibits, trips to the river. We paid for one exhibit in the city but I bought a groupon for it so it was half off. We basically only paid for gas for 90% of our trips.

Now I'd like to focus on suppers, but I have to plan a menu for that, which I'm not that great at doing because I don't know on Monday what I plan to serve the entire week.
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SRS




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 28 2014, 3:34 pm
The Tightwad Gazette is a GAZETTE and should never be read as a book in my opinion. Also remember that the book is not adjusted for inflation. It wasn't that long ago that I was feeding myself on $30-$50 a month and figures $200 a month for a family would be generous, but I can no longer buy lentils for 50 cents a bag, 3 cans of tuna for a dollar on any given week, and my kids like cheese while I survived fine without much of it.

Frugal varies by the circumstances in your life at the time. It is a good idea to gather ideas and adopt them one at a time as you master them. It takes time to master a skill and build efficiency. I think it is best to cut a budget down across many areas while concentrating on one area with more vigor. If you are spending 2K on kids clothing, try to hit a consignment shop once a month or dedicate one Sunday a month to running to local garage sales with efficiently. Yes, time is money, but it seems to me that a lot of people who talk about how much their time is worth don't have the billable hours to back it up and do need to cut their budget and spend the time to create the system and benefit in the long run. . sort of like an initial investment in a piece of property or something. . .sometimes you need to sink some time.
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