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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
College Educated Parents:
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amother


 

Post Thu, Aug 28 2014, 7:36 pm
How would u feel if your child did not want to go to college? Or went and dropped out? Because they want to be more right wing, not because of academics....
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morah




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 28 2014, 7:51 pm
I say this as someone college educated and as a teacher in a high school where most students are shooting for elite colleges. I would be fine with it. But he has to have a plan. A real plan. Not government programs, not support from family (unless someone is willing and able to do a Yissachar/Zevulun deal). He has to be made aware of reality and what his options are. But with all that? If it makes him happy, sure.
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LiLIsraeli




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 28 2014, 8:27 pm
morah wrote:
I say this as someone college educated and as a teacher in a high school where most students are shooting for elite colleges. I would be fine with it. But he has to have a plan. A real plan. Not government programs, not support from family (unless someone is willing and able to do a Yissachar/Zevulun deal). He has to be made aware of reality and what his options are. But with all that? If it makes him happy, sure.


I agree with this. I would like there to be a realistic plan for supporting a family, and if my child can come up with that, I would not oppose his/her choice.
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amother


 

Post Thu, Aug 28 2014, 8:29 pm
OP here: if it has to do with a realistic goal for supporting a family, how would you feel if your child majored in something that doesn't necessarily have a high income such as social work, anthropology, etc.
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morah




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 28 2014, 8:36 pm
Well, it depends. Something like social work has other perks to make up for the income. I wouldn't exactly call it unrealistic. I'm a teacher, in case you can't tell. Not exactly raking in the dough here (though my husband is, b'h). Go in with your eyes open. Know the reality. Now, if they want to major in theater, that's definitely more dicey, but again, as long as they have a plan (to find other work in the very likely event that they don't become a star; a realistic timeline to make it a normal career, or else relegate it to a hobby) again, fine. Eyes open, know your options, know what you need to do to make it work. My heart may be in my throat till I know it's working out, but what can you do?
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Imogen




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 28 2014, 8:39 pm
Op I have dc who have or are taking arts degrees, history or literature etc. I feel strongly education is really important in itself and a good education leads to a good career. I live in Uk where degrees are now paid by students through student loans, many of my peers insist kids do a vocational degree to avoid debt or maximise earning potential. As a parent who had a first class education, doing an arts degree before studying law I feel it wrong to deny my child when young the chance of studying something they love. Education is not just about earning a salary but being a cultured refined person. Life is not just about making money, education should not just be about money either.
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manhattanmom




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 28 2014, 8:39 pm
We would love for our children to be self-sufficient. That means having some kind of financial plan that is realistic. Of course, our oldest child is starting the second grade next week....but that is what my husband and I would really like.
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amother


 

Post Thu, Aug 28 2014, 9:07 pm
Many college students who plan to go on for a graduate degree will major in something impractical as long as they take the prerequisites for what they intend to continue on with.

I, for example, was premed. Rather than major in biology, which I was going to spend the rest of my life immersed in, I chose to explore other interests. Of course, I took the prerequisites and worked in labs and doctors offices and volunteered on a hospital as well. But I majored in history and took lots of courses that just interested me because that's what a liberal arts college is for. I can't tell you how many people looked at my med school application and said something along the lines of, "Wow, you're going to be a doctor that people can actually talk to!"

Amother because of identifying details.
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amother


 

Post Thu, Aug 28 2014, 9:10 pm
amother wrote:
Many college students who plan to go on for a graduate degree will major in something impractical as long as they take the prerequisites for what they intend to continue on with.

I, for example, was premed. Rather than major in biology, which I was going to spend the rest of my life immersed in, I chose to explore other interests. Of course, I took the prerequisites and worked in labs and doctors offices and volunteered on a hospital as well. But I majored in history and took lots of courses that just interested me because that's what a liberal arts college is for. I can't tell you how many people looked at my med school application and said something along the lines of, "Wow, you're going to be a doctor that people can actually talk to!"

Amother because of identifying details.


Was med school difficult w/o a bio or chem major for u?
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dancingqueen




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 28 2014, 9:15 pm
I would definitely encourage them to get a degree and talk seriously about their life plan for supporting themself.

Honestly I would be a bit disappointed.
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Maya




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 28 2014, 9:21 pm
dancingqueen wrote:
I would definitely encourage them to get a degree and talk seriously about their life plan for supporting themself.

Honestly I would be a bit disappointed.

Same here.
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amother


 

Post Thu, Aug 28 2014, 9:33 pm
It all depends on how much he has to take out in loans to pay for college! My DH is a social worker with over 100k in student debt. He is a wonderful person and does great work but I would have preferred if he could actually contribute to the family finances instead of just making enough to pay his loans. Ask him to think of his future family when making this decision.
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amother


 

Post Thu, Aug 28 2014, 9:34 pm
IF my dc had a concrete plan for parnossoh, e.g. went to vocational training for something real, and not "I'll go into some sort of business", then that would be, perhaps a bit disappointing from a bragging-rights POV, but it would be ok. The problem is my dc who has been in post-HS yeshiva for way too many years, rejects college as being totally tref, but has no plan whatsoever. he has known from grade school that we can't and won't support him, he knows he has and we have nothing to offer a wealthy prospective shidduch in the way of prestige, connections or expectations of a lush yerusha. He also knows that beis medrash is not an accredited educational institution, he has aged out of coverage under our health insurance and is now one of the millions of Americans who have no health insurance. For that alone I want him to enroll some accredited post-secondary institution. If it's auto-mechanic school, so be it. Those guys have no prestige, but they make money hand over fist.
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Volunteer




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 29 2014, 2:41 am
Is anyone reading this old enough to remember the bygone era when not everyone attended college? When many young men graduated high school and apprenticed in a business, or trade?

Dh's parents were also "college or bust" people, so dh went, reluctantly. It was just not his thing at all. He simply did not thrive there. So, he left after 2 years (btw he paid for college himself), and guess what unspeakable thing he did? He enlisted in the military. He was placed in a high-tech position that he got a lot out of for his future. Not saying that the military is a definitely good option of your son, OP, but just to make a point:
Not everyone needs a bachelor's degree to be successful. You need a realistic plan, self-motivation, responsibility and maturity. College is not the only option, even though it may be the best choice for many.
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little_mage




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 29 2014, 5:50 am
I have come to believe that the "college for everyone" paradigm is not practical and not really a good idea in the long run. I'm one of those people who went to college because that's what "everyone" was doing. I loved college, it was a lot of fun and I learned a lot, but the most practical skills I learned were from my work study job. I'm lucky though, that despite going to a very expensive school ($40,000+ a year), I managed to only graduate with about $17,000 in loans. My husband and I, who plans to be a professor, btw, plan to only encourage our children (the oldest of who is only three) to only go to college if they have a career path that requires it. That being said, at least for my particular family, I have a feeling that the college landscape will look very different by the time my son is ready to even start considering it, because the current situation, at least in the US, is not sustainable.
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syrima




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 29 2014, 11:23 am
I would want my kids to at least have an undergrad degree. After that I would leave it up to them.
Of course, I hope by then that online colleges have brought down the cost of things by a lot...and that they get good scholarships!
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 29 2014, 11:41 am
sabich wrote:
Op I have dc who have or are taking arts degrees, history or literature etc. I feel strongly education is really important in itself and a good education leads to a good career. I live in Uk where degrees are now paid by students through student loans, many of my peers insist kids do a vocational degree to avoid debt or maximise earning potential. As a parent who had a first class education, doing an arts degree before studying law I feel it wrong to deny my child when young the chance of studying something they love. Education is not just about earning a salary but being a cultured refined person. Life is not just about making money, education should not just be about money either.


What if the thing they want to study when they are young is Torah, and they want to be more right wing while they are at it?

That may be part of the OP's question.
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HonesttoGod




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 29 2014, 11:43 am
I would want them to have a degree in something they enjoy whether or not it is a money maker because if they do something just for the money there is a much higher chance they will drop out.
Besides if you enjoy your job you can make more money by being proactive and a strong worker than if you hate your job and do it "for the money".

Honestly I just want my kids to be happy. I would not let them drop out unless they had a proper plan in place how they will support a family (and government benefits whilst in kolel and a wife working her a** off is NOT a plan no matter how RW they are).

At the same time I would probably be a bit upset and do my best to encourage them to stay because neither myself or dh have a degree and at this point it is proving harder than we thought to try work for one (financially etc) and we hate that.
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MaBelleVie




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 29 2014, 11:44 am
amother wrote:
IF my dc had a concrete plan for parnossoh, e.g. went to vocational training for something real, and not "I'll go into some sort of business", then that would be, perhaps a bit disappointing from a bragging-rights POV, but it would be ok. The problem is my dc who has been in post-HS yeshiva for way too many years, rejects college as being totally tref, but has no plan whatsoever. he has known from grade school that we can't and won't support him, he knows he has and we have nothing to offer a wealthy prospective shidduch in the way of prestige, connections or expectations of a lush yerusha. He also knows that beis medrash is not an accredited educational institution, he has aged out of coverage under our health insurance and is now one of the millions of Americans who have no health insurance. For that alone I want him to enroll some accredited post-secondary institution. If it's auto-mechanic school, so be it. Those guys have no prestige, but they make money hand over fist.


Sounds like he isn't mature enough to get married. Hopefully it will kick in sooner rather than later...
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kollel wife




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 29 2014, 12:09 pm
In yeshivishe circles many young men learn long term
1. without marrying a rich girl
2. without a definite plan of what he will pursue one day.

Even if her family cannot support, he will marry a girl willing/interesting to work and support as long as she can.

Usually when her job/ability to support is no longer sustaining them, the young man then will train for something practical such as computers or accounting or go into chinuch. This decision/plan may not be in place yet until the reality becomes necessary.

If he is not spoiled/immature in other ways, but takes learning seriously I would not worry.

Maturity can be seen in other ares like responsible with your car, making purchases things like that.
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