Moving to America | Imamother

amother

Sun, Aug 31 2014, 2:49 pm

amother wrote:

hi, I am the poster that was writing about boys schools in Baltimore. Now for the girls schools: Bais Yaakov or Bnos Yisroel. Bais Yaakov is the community school. It is large but has a great reputation. There are about 6 classes per grade but they try to keep the classes small (around 20) so the girls don't get lost. It is also diverse. Many many amazing families like yours, also some who are not as yeshivish. The girls all get along well and respect each other. Each year, of the graduating class, many girls go to super yeshivish seminaries like Hadar, BJJ etc and many also go to Michlalah etc. It is the beauty of Baltimore that all these girls go to school together and are friendly with each other.
Bnos Yisroel-newer and smaller. It tries to focus more on middos than academics though they have a decent academic program also. It tends to get a lot of Baalei teshuva families who are very strong now but whose parents didn't grow up going to Bais Yaakov so feel less of a connection to that school. Also Lubavitch and Chassidish families tend to send more to Bnos Yisroel. .

I just want to say that as a graduate of BY of Baltimore, I am planning on moving back to Baltimore from Yerushalayim just because I think it's the best education a parent can provide for their children. I have friends from the most modern to the most yeshivish families, and we all grew up respecting one another. We learned tons of real material from old school teachers who didn't add their own ideas and opinions to the words of Chazal. The old school middos we learned from the school- especially the value of time and hard work- have benefited me so much in my life and career. I will always love BY of Baltimore and wish there was a perfect boy's counterpart in the community.

amother

Sun, Aug 31 2014, 3:22 pm

BY Baltimore definitely has lots of young teachers too these days :-)
Not all old school. But I agree, I got a great education there. They taught us to work hard (which we did) and most of us sailed through college bec. we had such a strong work ethic.

In terms of finances, if you don't have a rent/mortgage, that will definitely help you. Also, people with low incomes can qualify for Medical Assistance (free health insurance), WIC (food for pregnant or post partum woman and little kids), even Food Stamps. Most people I know live very simply but life and expenses just add up. Almost everyone has 2 cars because their husband takes one to work/yeshiva/shul etc. and the wife needs one for carpool/shopping etc. Its not set up that you can walk to all these places. The gas, wear and tear, etc can add up. Kosher food is expensive. There are some clothing gmach's here but they are limited in what they have. Clothes at the frum stores are not cheap either (though we do have a guy from Boro Park that comes into town every few weeks with much cheaper clothes). If you don't qualify for Medical Assistance, health insurance, copays, medicine etc. can be very costly. If your kid needs any extra services I.e. tutoring, extra curricular activities, therapies, those are expensive (some therapies are covered by insurance).
Most people have cleaning ladies at least once a week or every other week, paying $12-$15 an hour.
I think we live very simply but we are always very tight on money (we make slightly less than 100,000 combined).
For tuition, you have to fill out a scholarship application and each school decides how much of a scholarship to give you based on your income, expenses, lifestyle, etc. (they ask questions like how much do you spend on vacations, cleaning help, tutoring, home improvements etc). I don't know how much they give other people but they have typically given us about a 1/3 to 1/2 discount (I.e. from 10,000 to 6000).
Baltimore weather: I can't compare it to anywhere but in the winter it is usually about 30-35 degrees. snows occasionally. schools tend to close quickly bec. of snow/ice bec. the city isn't so prepared for bad weather. summer can be humid.
Walking around: there are lots of different neighborhoods. some of the most affordable housing is in a mixed black/frum area and there are some crime issues so you wouldn't walk around there at night. during the day its usually safe. Most of the other areas are pretty and pleasant and people are always walking.

amother

Sun, Aug 31 2014, 3:40 pm

amother wrote:

That is so much money! We make so little of that amount, I don't think we could ever make it in America. I have never used a cleaning lady, am not the home improvement type, and never have any expenses outside of food and real necessities. I guess moving is not in the cards for us, we could never do it financially. How do people make that much money??

loveit

Sun, Aug 31 2014, 4:45 pm

I'm also from California and we moved to Dallas. Dallas is an amazing oot community! Definitely not as big as Baltimore but the people in the community are amazing. We have a very frum day school with a small percentage of families brought in for Kirov as our kollel is Kirov focused. Many families to look up to. Cost of living is less than the east coast and varies through the 3 different eruvs.

Weather is very close to California just a little hotter in the summer and a little older in the winter. I would say we have sunshine most of the year, no dreary winters like ny or Baltimore!

Gashmiyus wise everything is very low key, even by the families that do have means. Let me know if you want more info

amother

Sun, Aug 31 2014, 8:13 pm

Quote:

Salaries are much higher in America so you can't look at your current income and think that's what you'd be making here. Do you and your husband have usable degrees/professions/skills?

amother

Mon, Sep 01 2014, 12:17 am

OP,

We lived in EY for 6 years, then Cincinnati for 6, and now in Detroit for 1. I am from Brooklyn and my DH from Baltimore (this calls for an anon post if there ever was one!)

First I'd have to say you may think you'll have a less stressful life in the US, but realize you are simply exchanging some stresses for others. Yes, people might be "calmer" but it's harder to make ends meet, so that is a huge stress right there. And thousands more.

I didn't read every post, but it seems like you want out-of-town menchlachkeit and simplicity, but in-town school options. Having familiarity with the above mentioned 4 places in the US, I think your best bet is Detroit (out of those 4).

Baltimore - we have many relatives there now and visit often. I would say it's a different Baltimore than the one DH grew up with. The Brooklyn trickle has definitely made its presence downward to Baltimore, and while there are still probably lots of simplistic, low-gashmius people, you will definitely find plenty of fancy people with fancy clothes eating at expensive restaurants that have not existed a mere 10 years ago. It STILL could be your best bet for all the positive reasons people said above (respectful, middos, etc.) but make no mistake - you will be barely making it unless you have a good parnassah.

Cincinnati - friendly, simple, and low gashmius. Ikkur problem is there is only one school and a very diverse parent body. Having 2-3 schools would actually be a unifying factor, so that each "group" could have his own school instead of convincing everyone else to fit the school to his own agenda. Tuition vouchers are available from the state - do a search as Hashem Yaazor posted about this before.

Detroit - we are here now and like it. For us personally, we like that there are 3 schools (Detroit poster above who mentioned 2 schools - you forgot Akiva, the 3rd school! Very important for each type to have his own school - reduces machlokes). But as with every other place, you need parnasah. Winters are brutal! But I would not trade them for summers in Baltimore, which are more brutal!

Hatzlacha!

amother

Mon, Sep 01 2014, 12:19 am

amother wrote:

last detroit amother here....also just wanted to add that they gashmiyus level here is impressively low key. And homes/cost of living is very affordable...kollel families are able to buy homes no problem.

NOT TRUE ANYMORE.

THe housing market exploded and housing is actually exceedingly difficult to come by. BH it is due to an influx of young families - always the sign of a healthy, growing community, but there is a housing shortage here which is driving up prices. Lots of competition for the few ones available (although the prices are still much lower than east coast)

amother

Mon, Sep 01 2014, 3:07 am

amother wrote:

I know that life in US is also stressful, but for different reasons. Like I said, it's not the only reason behind a decision to move there. And this is definitely not an easy one. I love EY so much..

Thank you so much for all this information, it was extremely helpful. Can you tell me more about the schools and the community in Detroit? Baltimore sounded like a good option to begin with but financially it seems less plausible than Detorit.. I'd love to hear more!

amother

Mon, Sep 01 2014, 4:28 am

amother wrote:

Quote:

Salaries are much higher in America so you can't look at your current income and think that's what you'd be making here. Do you and your husband have usable degrees/professions/skills?

Nothing professional. I have a bachelor's in english (worthless) and my husband has an associate's in hotel management, from europe..

wife2

Mon, Sep 01 2014, 4:40 am

amother wrote:

Baltimore poster again. It might be worth it to pm tova and /or hashem yaazor. They are both one income families who fit your hashkafa. They can speak a little more to the dollar amounts needed. As far as jobs most men (and many women) here are professionals. A lot of accountants, lawyers, computer people, actuaries, dentists, therapists, doctors, nurses,etc. In baltimore its not weird to be very frum and a professional. Its the only way to pay the bills!

I work in Bnos Yisroel and the minimum tuition they charge is usually around $5000 per child. Now, of course there are exceptions but they don't give big discounts. BY may be a little less but you still need to pay more than $4000 a kid, generally. NOT everyone is professionals, there are all types of jobs. And NOT everyone I know has cleaning ladies. There are poorer families here who live in worse neighborhoods and don't buy new clothes so often, don't go out to eat, etc. Yes, the newer influx of people have great jobs, dress fancy, many from NY and other in-town places but you can still manage without having $100,000. Yes, you may need to wear used clothes and buy cheap food but you can do it. THE BIGGEST expense is tuition. What is the minimum amount you can afford to pay per child?

amother

Mon, Sep 01 2014, 4:47 am

wife2 wrote:

Worse neighborhoods = high crime? Also, do other frum families live in these neighborhoods?

I don't know what the minimum is, but what I can say is that we barely get by on our combined incomes in israel, where we have no car, my kids' day cares are extremely cheap, and we don't have extra expenses whatsoever. We have some savings that we never touch though.