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9 yo dd best friend is chutzpadik
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amother


 

Post Mon, Sep 01 2014, 12:04 pm
She started being chutzpadik lately. Would you discipline her or talk to her mother. Would you limit the time she comes over?
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SRS




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Sep 01 2014, 12:29 pm
I always tell my son's friends when they cross the line. I'm not sure what your friend's daughter is doing that you consider chutzpahdik, so it is hard to advise without more detail. I don't consider clueing a child in to acceptable behavior in a home is considered discipline. Sometimes behavior that comes off as chuztpah is coming from a place of anxiousness or something else and a little assurance that you've got it is enough to change the behavior. Limiting time together is best in response to behavior that has been addressed and the child makes no effort to change it. I might have a bit more endurance than normal. I have a kid over way too much that roughhouses, but he really makes an effort to keep his behavior in check and sometimes slips. I think we are a positive influence in his life, so I'm trying to be patient with the behavior. We are some of the few people who seem to be on him about boundaries and limits of appropriate behavior in a way that doesn't involve screaming and yelling. He is receptive, so we are patient. I think that that is your threshold is receptiveness.

Last edited by SRS on Mon, Sep 01 2014, 12:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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groovy1224




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Sep 01 2014, 12:30 pm
amother wrote:
She started being chutzpadik lately. Would you discipline her or talk to her mother. Would you limit the time she comes over?


No and no. Her own mother is a big girl and can handle that herself, and even if not it's completely out of line for you.

You are, however, completely welcome to limit anyone's time in your home if you are uncomfortable with his or her behavior.
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amother


 

Post Mon, Sep 01 2014, 12:55 pm
Op here
She comes from a very nice family. Dd wants to have her over a lot. They are together a lot at each other's house. She started talking back to me. I think she thinks she can get away with it because I'm very soft spoken. My dd is very polite and well behaved but still playful. The friend is very energetic and outgoing. Wwyd
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SRS




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Sep 01 2014, 1:00 pm
amother wrote:
Op here
She comes from a very nice family. Dd wants to have her over a lot. They are together a lot at each other's house. She started talking back to me. I think she thinks she can get away with it because I'm very soft spoken. My dd is very polite and well behaved but still playful. The friend is very energetic and outgoing. Wwyd


Have you said flat out, "I do not appreciate the way you are speaking to me. We are happy to have you in our home, but insist that you do not contradict me"? You can say that softly! The child probably does not realize that the way she is speaking is not acceptable in all environments. Telling a child they are out of line is not disciplining them, it is informing them. Disciplining her would be putting her in a corner. I would not involve the mother. Energetic can be taken as chutzpah and sometimes a person needs to know that in this environment, behavior needs adjusted or tempered for those people.

In my home the kids know that tracking mess throughout the home is simply not acceptable because I can't stand it. Other parents seem to have no issue with getting every toy out and cleaning up at the end. If I can't walk across the floor or if it gets too loud, it just isn't happening for me. I think kids understand that if they want to play in a different way, they need to relocate to the home where the parents can manage that.
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groovy1224




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Sep 01 2014, 1:08 pm
amother wrote:
Op here
She comes from a very nice family. Dd wants to have her over a lot. They are together a lot at each other's house. She started talking back to me. I think she thinks she can get away with it because I'm very soft spoken. My dd is very polite and well behaved but still playful. The friend is very energetic and outgoing. Wwyd


It really depends what you mean by chutzpadic then. If she's just being rude, you can definitely say 'We say please and thank you in this house.' But if it's really rotten behavior, you're kind of stuck because you can't discipline her. Are you upset that she's talking back to you, or you're concerned that your dd will learn from her?
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amother


 

Post Mon, Sep 01 2014, 1:22 pm
groovy1224 wrote:
It really depends what you mean by chutzpadic then. If she's just being rude, you can definitely say 'We say please and thank you in this house.' But if it's really rotten behavior, you're kind of stuck because you can't discipline her. Are you upset that she's talking back to you, or you're concerned that your dd will learn from her?

Op here
I'm upset because I don't like dd to see her friend disrespecting me. Dd is very polite and well behaved I'm sure she won't be influenced from this rotten behavior.
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shanie5




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Sep 01 2014, 1:23 pm
My house, my rules. If a kid is chutzpadik to me in my home, I will say "excuse me, that is unacceptable, want to try that again-politely?" If they do, I let it go, if they dont, I would send them home. Every time.
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SRS




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Sep 01 2014, 1:38 pm
Some kids are constantly testing people and boundaries. They need push back each and every time until they learn. It sounds like you are soft and are blessed with a compliant child (great combo!). I think your daughter could even benefit from having a friend over who pushes the boundaries of propriety and she gets to see you push right back and show that the rules are firm and you are in charge.

So I vote not to limit time. Just don't be afraid to speak (practically an ongoing theme of my comments. . .say something!).
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amother


 

Post Mon, Sep 01 2014, 2:12 pm
SRS wrote:
Some kids are constantly testing people and boundaries. They need push back each and every time until they learn. It sounds like you are soft and are blessed with a compliant child (great combo!). I think your daughter could even benefit from having a friend over who pushes the boundaries of propriety and she gets to see you push right back and show that the rules are firm and you are in charge.

So I vote not to limit time. Just don't be afraid to speak (practically an ongoing theme of my comments. . .say something!).

Op here
I said something but the friend keeps pushing and testing me. I don't want to fight with her. She comes from a very chashuva family and she feels superior.
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amother


 

Post Mon, Sep 01 2014, 3:06 pm
No, it's not right to go and tell off a child who is not your own, or their parents. That is just totally wrong. Ok, this girl has attitude but it's HER parents job to deal with it not yours. Even though she is friends with your dd, that doesn't mean you can go and speak to her parents or worse, tell her off - she is not your child, you will just have to grin and bear it, hopefully her parents will catch on. All you can do is tell YOUR dd, this is not the way to behave. Hopefully your dd intuitively knows she doesn't have good behaviour but regardless, tell dd all you like but you can't tell the other girl you just have no basis to do that, since you are not her mother or family member. Even though in this case there is a clear right and wrong, there is also a standard etiquette of behaviour and it's just not right and not classy to start telling off other people's kids or remarking about them to parents/teachers, I'd leave it alone altogether op and focus on your own daughter Smile
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Dandelion1




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Sep 01 2014, 3:34 pm
Can you give an example? My dd has a friend who will kind of nag/beg me for things I've said no to... But I don't see that as chutzpah more like she's a little immature and particularly comfortable with me I guess. Technically it is chutzpahdik but not in a way that is nasty or rude... You know? Is it that sort of thing or is it actual disrespectful or aggressive words... Like "I don't have to listen to you, etc."
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Sep 01 2014, 3:35 pm
This already I would warn the mom, and be appreciative if warned about mine doing that. Your friend's parent is very much a parent, not a friend...
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SRS




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Sep 01 2014, 7:03 pm
amother wrote:
Op here
I said something but the friend keeps pushing and testing me. I don't want to fight with her. She comes from a very chashuva family and she feels superior.

A
She is a kid. You are an adult. Who cares how important her family is? Knowing that I am almost guessing that too many people are hands off with her because they forget that importance is earned not acquired. It is quite possible she is lacking the feedback needed for her own development because her yichus protects her. Tell her exactly what is unacceptable so she is not left guessing and if she repeats the behavior you send her home. Do not think of it as discipline, think of it as a consequence. You are every bit as chashuve and in your own home certainly you are the superior one. So give yourself permission to have sone authority.
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amother


 

Post Mon, Sep 01 2014, 7:13 pm
SRS wrote:
A
She is a kid. You are an adult. Who cares how important her family is? Knowing that I am almost guessing that too many people are hands off with her because they forget that importance is earned not acquired. It is quite possible she is lacking the feedback needed for her own development because her yichus protects her. Tell her exactly what is unacceptable so she is not left guessing and if she repeats the behavior you send her home. Do not think of it as discipline, think of it as a consequence. You are every bit as chashuve and in your own home certainly you are the superior one. So give yourself permission to have sone authority.

Op here
If I do that my dd is going to be very upset. I better not invite this girl at all.
She is very well behaved at her house. At school she is a little bit trouble maker and a class clown.
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SRS




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Sep 01 2014, 7:37 pm
amother wrote:
No, it's not right to go and tell off a child who is not your own, or their parents. That is just totally wrong. Ok, this girl has attitude but it's HER parents job to deal with it not yours. Even though she is friends with your dd, that doesn't mean you can go and speak to her parents or worse, tell her off - she is not your child, you will just have to grin and bear it, hopefully her parents will catch on. All you can do is tell YOUR dd, this is not the way to behave. Hopefully your dd intuitively knows she doesn't have good behaviour but regardless, tell dd all you like but you can't tell the other girl you just have no basis to do that, since you are not her mother or family member. Even though in this case there is a clear right and wrong, there is also a standard etiquette of behaviour and it's just not right and not classy to start telling off other people's kids or remarking about them to parents/teachers, I'd leave it alone altogether op and focus on your own daughter Smile


I am not as old as I might sound right about now, but there was a time when people did not talk so much about needing a village, but their was an actual village that would call you out on actual behavior. I do not know when or where this idea came out that only a parent can give children the feedback they need, but I think it is directly and proportionaly related to what amounts to great unpleasantness of dealing with other people's children. Life was so much easier when kids knew that there was always someone in charge and everyone knew it.

I also have to wonder if some of the struggle kids have today on figuring out just what is a social norm comes from the fact that they live in a world where the feedback they get is almost exclusively parental because no one dare provide feedback to another person's child on the spot when needed. I have given so many parents permission to juat tell my kid to knock it off if they see behavior that is not acceptable. As a parent of a child that seems to either be testing limits, just not caring or understanding why something is not acceptable, or simply getting swept up by the excitement of a social scene, I actually find it painful to hear about this or that incident much later knowing everyone is talking and deliberating about it when they should let you know when it would likely be much more efficient, effective, and overall less painful if another adult had just tapped kid on the shoulder and said, hey knock it off so I don't need to find your parent. I cannot imagine living in a world where misstep was reported back to my parents so they could deal with it. But that is the fallout of this new theory in parenting that the parent, and only the parent, has the right to say something.
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SRS




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Sep 01 2014, 7:47 pm
amother wrote:
Op here
If I do that my dd is going to be very upset. I better not invite this girl at all.
She is very well behaved at her house. At school she is a little bit trouble maker and a class clown.


OP, you are only going to need to assert your authority once or twice. That is it. This girl, barring more serious difficulties will fall in line. There is a good chance she will never need sent home because she will fall in line as soon as you call her out and she knows you mean business. I guess you can decide that she cannot be real friend because you do not want to deal with her behavior and they cannot play after school. That seems draconian. Now it sounds like your daughter, despite being pkeasant, is a bit in charge in your home if you are afraid she will be, upset. Who cares? It is an important emotion to learn to deal with.
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ElTam




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Sep 01 2014, 8:10 pm
Quote:
No, it's not right to go and tell off a child who is not your own, or their parents. That is just totally wrong.


I totally disagree. If you are in my house, you abide by my rules. There is nothing wrong with saying, "It is not permitted to speak to an adult that way in our house." As someone else said, say it softly, but firmly, making eye contact. If she continues after a few warnings, say, "If you continue to do/say XYZ, you will not be able to play here any more."
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Sep 01 2014, 8:31 pm
BTDT

DD's BFF is like that, and with her parents too. I gently remind her "We don't talk like that in our house." and I say it in front of DD so that DD gets the message that she'd better not start copying her friend.

BFF's parents put up with it, but if they come to pick her up and she starts giving them attitude I'll say "Please respect your parents and cooperate." so at least the parents know that it's not flying at my house.

After BFF leaves, DD and I will discuss it a bit. DD actually says that she feels sorry for BFF's parents, and that she's really disapproves of how BFF behaves. My kid is a good kid, and she is mature enough to know that saucy attitudes are not OK with adults.

DD and BFF can really fight, boss each other around, and generally talk back to each other, and I don't get involved. I let them sort themselves out. I tell DD that there is one way to talk to other kids, and an entirely different way to talk to people in authority. Don't ever mix the two up!
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amother


 

Post Mon, Sep 01 2014, 8:45 pm
I was a very chutzpadik child. Although it worked when people would tell my parents, I felt so ashamed (I still feel bad about some things I heard back).
What I remember is, I was more chutzpadik when adults got defensive and threatening, if not to their faces then behind their backs.
But if a parent was kind, I would've done anything to please them. Not manipulative with charts or begging or stories, then I would resist. Just calm and firm and kind. Hope that helps.[quote]


Last edited by amother on Fri, Dec 26 2014, 1:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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