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What is the secret that creates respect and fear?
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Bitachon101




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 02 2014, 10:49 pm
What oh what is the secret??

What makes one parent in one family awed and respected while in another family the kids care less about their parents respect than they do about how many cells make up their toes.....?
What is it that makes a child run without thinking to do the parents wish the first time, while other parents have to talk til they are blue in the face screaming before the kids or spouse lift a finger?
What is it that makes some students awed by one teacher and totally trample over the next?

I recently was by a simcha which was mainly family and the father was speaking (for a verrrrry long time) and there was not a peep in the room. The air was intense, not everything he said could be followed, but it was so quiet that you could hear a pin drop. for about an hour. why? what made that happen. And what is missing by the parents that try to say a beautiful dvar torah but the kids just talk right over them and ignore them?
What is the secret that makes children mortified to disappoint their parents? Whats missing that makes some kids not give a hoot that they exasperate their parents?

I want to learn the secret... before my children grow old and move on in life. I want to learn what makes respect and fear and love all at once.
As a teacher - I loved my students (yes past tense.... I gave that profession up) but they trampled me.
As a mother, my children do not listen to me. My dh doesnt listen to me. Nobody listens to me till I yell.
And I hate yelling but do so out of exasperation!
Its not about a power struggle. its about automatic respect.
My grandmother a"h never ever ever yelled. She was the most calm loving caring person and yet when she said something ppl jumped and did.
What was her secret???
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gold21




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 02 2014, 10:54 pm
Confidence, self-respect, being sure of yourself, I guess?
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amother


 

Post Tue, Sep 02 2014, 10:58 pm
I would say being consistent, non hypocritical, an all round kind person, and just making sure that when you set limits, or disallow something you explain why. I would say also it's about connecting with them on their level, showing understanding and care, lots of love, warmth and grace.
Practice what you preach. Children are very observant.
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Dolly Welsh




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 02 2014, 10:59 pm
Maybe connection. It is theatrical. Eye contact. Mental putting out the mind to the other person. Not everyone likes this kind of mental rubbing. Perhaps that's inborn, perhaps they themselves didn't get a lot of it from their own parents.

Then there is selling.

Which is a part of the first thing.

Some people were trained very early you just don't sell. Maybe you don't compete with your mother as Woman. Maybe it's vulgar to advocate, sell. Maybe it's pushy. Or, also, that indifference to theatricality and selling may be inborn.

Selling is not about "you have to buy this".

It has to be "psst! wouldn't you just love to buy this? Look how niiiiice it is!"

In short, it can't be commanded.

Trying to command attention is thin stuff if the other person hasn't first been sold on how important your offered emotional merchandise is.

Pediatricians call it "bonding".

You can learn to sell, even later. It will require demonstrating worth, and presenting attractively. And, just as in theater or the movies, they must never catch you wanting it. You must be convincing. A good Hamlet doesn't come on stage and say "please believe I am Hamlet. For an hour, anyway. Of course I'm not, but please, I need you to believe or at least try. Would you?"

That wouldn't work. The actor strides on, in costume, knows his lines, understands the impression he is making, and forces himself on you as Hamlet.

Hope these ramblings help. The short answer is I don't know.
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amother


 

Post Tue, Sep 02 2014, 11:13 pm
I think the first step is acceptance of who you are as a person. Knowing your style and what works for you and doesn't. Don't compare yourself to others.

Maybe you'll never command that kind of respect where a room goes dead silent when you get up to speak, or where the kids will instantly obey you. Then again, maybe you don't need it. There are all kind of personalities and relationships that work. We don't all have to be the same.

If you know your kids won't listen to a command, you just need to try different approaches. Maybe a chart. Maybe doing things with them. but if you have a little voice inside of you constantly saying, "see? nobody listens to me. What am I missing?" you'll never find it. You have to accept yourself as you are. So you're not a high powered personality. That's okay! You can still be a wonderful, devoted and very effective mother. Instant obedience isn't what you're aiming for. Maybe just cooperation, getting along, helping...

I was that teacher who was trampled by my students. Or I thought I was. And I did give it up eventually. Yet I still have students coming up to me 20 years later to tell me I was their most inspiring teacher or they learned the most in my class. Too bad I had to leave teaching to become aware of my gifts instead of constantly comparing myself to other teachers who had perfect control (oh how I hated that word!!!). But I had depth and creativity they didn't have.

I also recommend reading "Kids, Parents, Power Struggles" by Mary Sheedy Kurchinka. Many of the power struggles we get into with our kids are completely unnecessary and avoidable, and can be headed off by modifying your approach.
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Bitachon101




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 02 2014, 11:29 pm
amother wrote:
I would say being consistent, non hypocritical, an all round kind person, and just making sure that when you set limits, or disallow something you explain why. I would say also it's about connecting with them on their level, showing understanding and care, lots of love, warmth and grace.
Practice what you preach. Children are very observant.


This is me.
I am consistent - keep my word - non hypocrit - loving kind and caring - explain things so that they understand and are validated... firm when I believe it is necessary. yet I feel like these qualities are the very things that make my family take advantage and lose respect.

I dont come along with that secret awe.... I dont know what that ingredient is. they know I love them, they know I am honest as a lark, they know what I want from them.... yet they dont care. I see its the same with my parents and many of my siblings. My parents are the most loving caring and consistent ppl and have their boundaries set clear yet my siblings just ignore and trample them (some - not all.)
But my in-laws... the kids consider their parents words and wants - the wants of G-d. why?
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Bitachon101




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 02 2014, 11:31 pm
Dolly - I am totally lost on this one... stumped.

Dolly Welsh wrote:
Maybe connection. It is theatrical. Eye contact. Mental putting out the mind to the other person. Not everyone likes this kind of mental rubbing. Perhaps that's inborn, perhaps they themselves didn't get a lot of it from their own parents.

Then there is selling.

Which is a part of the first thing.

Some people were trained very early you just don't sell. Maybe you don't compete with your mother as Woman. Maybe it's vulgar to advocate, sell. Maybe it's pushy. Or, also, that indifference to theatricality and selling may be inborn.

Selling is not about "you have to buy this".

It has to be "psst! wouldn't you just love to buy this? Look how niiiiice it is!"

In short, it can't be commanded.

Trying to command attention is thin stuff if the other person hasn't first been sold on how important your offered emotional merchandise is.

Pediatricians call it "bonding".

You can learn to sell, even later. It will require demonstrating worth, and presenting attractively. And, just as in theater or the movies, they must never catch you wanting it. You must be convincing. A good Hamlet doesn't come on stage and say "please believe I am Hamlet. For an hour, anyway. Of course I'm not, but please, I need you to believe or at least try. Would you?"

That wouldn't work. The actor strides on, in costume, knows his lines, understands the impression he is making, and forces himself on you as Hamlet.

Hope these ramblings help. The short answer is I don't know.
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Bitachon101




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 02 2014, 11:38 pm
amother wrote:
I think the first step is acceptance of who you are as a person. Knowing your style and what works for you and doesn't. Don't compare yourself to others.

Maybe you'll never command that kind of respect where a room goes dead silent when you get up to speak, or where the kids will instantly obey you. Then again, maybe you don't need it. There are all kind of personalities and relationships that work. We don't all have to be the same.

If you know your kids won't listen to a command, you just need to try different approaches. Maybe a chart. Maybe doing things with them. but if you have a little voice inside of you constantly saying, "see? nobody listens to me. What am I missing?" you'll never find it. You have to accept yourself as you are. So you're not a high powered personality. That's okay! You can still be a wonderful, devoted and very effective mother. Instant obedience isn't what you're aiming for. Maybe just cooperation, getting along, helping...

I was that teacher who was trampled by my students. Or I thought I was. And I did give it up eventually. Yet I still have students coming up to me 20 years later to tell me I was their most inspiring teacher or they learned the most in my class. Too bad I had to leave teaching to become aware of my gifts instead of constantly comparing myself to other teachers who had perfect control (oh how I hated that word!!!). But I had depth and creativity they didn't have.

I also recommend reading "Kids, Parents, Power Struggles" by Mary Sheedy Kurchinka. Many of the power struggles we get into with our kids are completely unnecessary and avoidable, and can be headed off by modifying your approach.


Interesting.
Why is this post amother?
I do need control. I do need to be listened to. I am loving and they will always know that - but my DNA cannot take being a shmatta or ignored. I am generally happy what makes ppl tick. what makes family A one way and Family B another way not putting me as either family but me as a speculator.
And Im curious to hear what other mothers feel contribute to it also looking at it as speculators and not personal situations.
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Bitachon101




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 02 2014, 11:42 pm
Quote:
I am generally happy...what makes ppl tick. what makes family A one way and



oops - half of my last post got deleted! I see that the middle paragraph is missing a whole part of what I wrote. (argh - my lovely laptop....)
I was saying that I honestly would love to see it from a speculators view not a personal view in order to understand the psych behind it all in what makes ppl tick. dont remember what else was there that got deleted. oh well.
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the world's best mom




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 02 2014, 11:47 pm
I'm not saying you are at fault in these areas-I don't have a clue what your parenting is like- but here are some general thoughts:

-Nobody is interested in obeying and pleasing anyone who doesn't show them lots of love. A loving, kind, caring adult is someone who the kids will want to please. Play with the children, read to them, cuddle, and enjoy their company. Let them enjoy being with you.

-Someone who praises the children a lot when they behave properly will have them doing the right thing in order to be praised. (You can have a Mitzvah note kind of system, where you share their great behavior at the Shabbos table or something.)

-Someone who yells loses respect in the eyes of the children. They want to be guided by a calm, rational human being, not by a screaming monster.

-Consistency is the key. Once you say something, you MUST stick with it (calmly). Therefore, choose your battles wisely. If you don't think it's worth sticking to your guns throughout a difficult tantrum, then don't start that battle in the first place.
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Jeanette




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 02 2014, 11:49 pm
Why are some people funny with a great sense of humor and other people are not?
Why are some people outgoing and some people are shy?
Why do some people have a great fashion sense and always look great while other people never look put together?
Why are some people neatniks and other people are slobs? And it's not that the sloppy people are lazy or don't want to be neater.
I could go on and on.
We all have different personalities and different strengths.
We can only work with what we have.
And we have to believe that we already have the strengths we need to raise good children and have a happy family. Maybe not a perfect family, maybe not the same as someone else.
Saying "Why can't I command respect the way X does" is no different than asking "Why can't I make people laugh the way X does."
You could take assertiveness training classes but as Dolly said it may always feel like an act.
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busymom




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 02 2014, 11:51 pm
Make your words matter. If you are not ready to battle over something, phrase it as a suggestion. ("You should eat some more of that. You'll be hungry later otherwise.) In other words, if they don't listen, it's okay, because you were giving them an option. However, when you are determined that your children do something - and pick your battles wisely because there can't be more than a couple of these each day - then make sure they know you mean business. And don't back down. ("Come in now." with tone and eye contact that make it clear you expect this to happen.) If it's a toddler, you can physically pick him up. An older child can get a consequence if they don't follow through after being warned. But your children will learn that your words aren't meaningless.

Another thing, my husband and I always back each other up. ("Don't raise your voice at Mommy!" "If that's what Tatty said, I'm sure he had a good reason for it.") I think children respect their parents more when they see how we stick up for each other and demand respect for the other one.

And despite everything I wrote above... I often have the same question you do op! Smile
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the world's best mom




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 02 2014, 11:55 pm
Bitachon101 wrote:
This is me.
I am consistent - keep my word - non hypocrit - loving kind and caring - explain things so that they understand and are validated... firm when I believe it is necessary. yet I feel like these qualities are the very things that make my family take advantage and lose respect.


This may be your problem. You think that your children lose respect for you when you are loving and caring. That may cause you to be less loving, or it may cause you to be less confident. If you are not confident that your children will listen to you, they sense that and see it as permission not to listen to you. You need to assert your authority and know that you are the boss. That will allow your children to see that there is no messing with you.

I recommend reading some parenting books so that you can feel in control and therefore be in control. You will also learn that being loving is crucial, rather than being a fault. You will also learn how to not yell when you feel out of control, because you will usually feel in control, with techniques ready to be used when necessary.
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Dolly Welsh




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 03 2014, 12:05 am
People respond to badges of rank.

OK, some don't need these cues, but plenty do.

Now, go get some badges of rank, and see if it helps. It might. People are not so intellectual; they are emotional beings.

Examine the photos of women who are very much regarded and listened to. The really senior ones have on pearls. Lots of them.

The major executives, the operations people, have on prominent earrings, but no necklace.

Get some decoration. There is a reason generals wear so many medals, right on their chests, piled up to clink, clank, and glitter.

Promote yourself.

Use the symbolisms.

Give it two months. If nothing happens you can always go back.

Obviously, it would be nice to not need the props, but if your character is reserved and passive, see if the props can help change how you are perceived. They will speak for you. They will say things you don't know how to say. The troops may respond, if you are very consistent about it.

Another thing is you will perceive yourself differently. You have eyes, too. You will start to impress yourself. That may show in your manner and delivery, too.

If you are haggard, get some color for your face. Just because you feel haggard doesn't mean it has to show.


Last edited by Dolly Welsh on Wed, Sep 03 2014, 12:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 03 2014, 12:08 am
Did not read much detail but did read your post about feeling you need to yell to get kids to listen. Good book: Raising your children without raising your voice. Or something like that. By Radcliffe. Buy it! Good luck!
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Dolly Welsh




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 03 2014, 12:14 am
Here it is. It sounds interesting

http://www.alibris.com/booksea.....horx=
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amother


 

Post Wed, Sep 03 2014, 12:20 am
I have spent the last 16 years trying to figure this one out.
My in laws are the most "Klein kepeldik" people I know. Not very smart, and pretty annoying if you ask my opinion, but their kids have so so much respect for them it makes me crazy!

When the father speaks everyone is quiet (the speaking at the shabbos meal starts at the fish course and doesn't end! -Another thing that makes me crazy:)
When the mother wants something you have a whole bunch of kids getting up to get it, etc
And they love their parents too.

From my observations
She is totally consistent, but even more than that, the kids don't get a yes to everything. Very much not spoiled children.
And also the kids know they matter and their opinions matter.
When one of the kids come to talk to the mother she stops everything she's doing and she focuses on the kid only.
Also my in laws don't get into arguments with people. So no confrontations. They'd rather just give in.

I don't know what it is exactly, but these are some of the things they do. Totally created the kind of house you are describing, but I can't do it...
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amother


 

Post Wed, Sep 03 2014, 8:01 am
Amother out of respect for DH.

DH's family is like this. They will run a mile for their parents. He's never said no to them in his life. Neither have any of his siblings AFAIK. They listened without ever having to be asked twice. Of course kids will be kids and they were wild sometimes too but none of them were disobedient teenagers, it was out of the question!

I'm always amazed at their deep respect however DH says they behaved more out of fear. He has enormous respect for his parents but he doesn't love them, it's more of a formal relationship.

We haven't managed to get our kids to behave that way but DH doesn't mind, he doesn't want to replicate his childhood home. He prefers the closeness he has with our children.
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 03 2014, 9:47 am
amother wrote:
I have spent the last 16 years trying to figure this one out.
My in laws are the most "Klein kepeldik" people I know. Not very smart, and pretty annoying if you ask my opinion, but their kids have so so much respect for them it makes me crazy!

When the father speaks everyone is quiet (the speaking at the shabbos meal starts at the fish course and doesn't end! -Another thing that makes me crazy:)
When the mother wants something you have a whole bunch of kids getting up to get it, etc
And they love their parents too.

From my observations
She is totally consistent, but even more than that, the kids don't get a yes to everything. Very much not spoiled children.
And also the kids know they matter and their opinions matter.
When one of the kids come to talk to the mother she stops everything she's doing and she focuses on the kid only.
Also my in laws don't get into arguments with people. So no confrontations. They'd rather just give in.

I don't know what it is exactly, but these are some of the things they do. Totally created the kind of house you are describing, but I can't do it...


They don't sound so small-minded to me at all.


I actually am very into "active-listening" parenting, where my kids know they can talk to me and I will hear them and validate them without judging. Read "How to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk" or something like that.

For the most part my kids listen to me with respect (not really fear, though.) I think if you model listening, your kids will also listen.
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L25




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 03 2014, 10:03 am
op this line from your post jumped at me "My dh doesnt listen to me. "- I think therin may lie your problem. If children see that your husband doesn't respect you then why should they? I would suggest you figure out why that is, may be talk to him, may be get an outsider involved if necessary- I'm not saying you have to run to marriage counseling but I do think you have an issue that needs to addressed.


To answer your question about secret I listened to a class that gave one and my husband and I chose NOT to implement. Call us crazy but to us but it didn't seem right, we didn't want to treat our children like that.. If I remember correctly this was the secret:

when your child is young pick a day and when he disobeys you potch him, keep doing that until he listens and then give him a kiss. Then give him lots of opportunities to do the right thing and kiss, praise etc It works like pavlovian dogs.

He claims your kids will forget about being potched but subconsciously they will know not to disobey you because there will be bad consequences even though they don't necessarily remember what they are.
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