Why can't I know who hurt ds in school??

FranticFrummie

Thu, Sep 04 2014, 3:53 am

TwinsMommy wrote:

you went anon to tell me my son should never be around other children until he stops biting? so all kids with aggressive autism should be homeschooled and not socialized in your opinion? Wondering how I teach my child not to bite other children unless he's around other children.

I feel for you. I really, really do. But at the same time I can see amother's point of view. Mainstreaming is extremely complicated, and can often be very problematic. I wish there was an intermediate class for kids who were not severely disabled, but not completely neurotypical either.

DD had a horrible time last year, because there were several boys in her class with ADHD and behavior issues. Their IEP had to accommodate them, and these boys basically held the entire classroom hostage. No one could learn when they went on into their antics, and it happened at least once per hour. I know because I shadowed DD for several weeks to see if things really were as bad as she said they were - and it turned out that they were worse. DD said that they were actually on GOOD behavior (at least compared to the usual) because an extra adult was in the room. DD told me that one kid last year threw a chair through a window. shock

When those boys would act out, she would get anxious, and when she gets anxious she either shuts down and hides under her desk, or starts making loud squeaking noises that upsets the kids at her table. She would get punished, but not the boys "because the boys can't help it", yet they thought that DD was in total control over her behavior, even though she has an IEP too.

I begged the school not to mainstream her because she can't be held to the standards of behavior as neurotypical kids, but they insisted that because she could read well, that she did not qualify for special ed.

*banging head on desk*

Being high functioning SUCKS! Mad

Sorry to highjack the thread, I could go on and on.

debsey

Thu, Sep 04 2014, 1:23 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

Sorry to highjack the thread, I could go on and on.

FF - you need to get "behavioral anxiety" added to DD's service plan. You need to write in that this type of maladaptive coping is not under conscious control. Maybe the school counselor can work on techniques she can use to calm herself, and that can be in her behavior plan. But the fact that she decompensates when anxious is NOT under conscious control and the school needs to work around that. Otherwise, she'll get anxious about becoming anxious! Bad idea........

Scrabble123

Thu, Sep 04 2014, 1:34 pm

OP: I'm not saying that biting other children is ok, but this is kindergarten. If it happens once, or even twice, just show your child that you feel with his pain, but then also just brush it off. Explain that the child was probably having a hard time and didn't express himself with words, but that "we do use words," right? I don't see why this needs to be an issue, children bite other children. It's important for the teacher to be on top of it, but not mothers: especially when it happened one time on the first day! Your kid will be okay. I'd be more concerned about the child understanding that this behaving is unacceptable than about knowing "who did it."

Barbara

Thu, Sep 04 2014, 1:40 pm

Ruchel wrote:

There's this new policy because
-some parents are mega violent
-some parents are mega cowards

I would demand to be allowed to apologize to the parent and child- but that's me. I stand up to what happens. But many, it seems, don't. When my ds was scratched the mora told me she can't say who but the mom is sorry and apologizes. I said it doesn't give me anything, no she doesn't.

Its not a new policy.

And it exists because even children are entitled to some modicum of privacy, which means not discussing them, or their issues, with other parents.

In any case, once a child is old enough for school, even pre-school, s/he can identify the culprit, or the victim, as the case may be.

Barbara

Thu, Sep 04 2014, 1:53 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

Sorry to highjack the thread, I could go on and on.

Actually, being high functioning is amazing. Your DD will have so many doors open to her that others won't. Okay, I know you know that.

In any case, no IEP requires accommodation of disruptive behavior. Maybe there was a bad teacher who couldn't control the class, which resulted in these types of issues. But under the circumstances that you describe, the IEP should have been re-evauluated, including consideration of a more appropriate placement. I blame the school.

In the future, I'd also advise the teachers about the fact that your DD has an extremely weak bladder, and needs to use the restroom frequently. She doesn't like to talk about that, though. Then tell her that if things get overwhelming in the classroom because of the behavior of other kids, she needs the restroom. Bad. Until they calm down, or she calms down. It would be better if the school could have a place for her to go, but the bathroom should work in case of emergency. Would a stress ball also help her?

Someone suggested writing it into her IEP, but I could write a book on teachers who don't follow IEPs.

amother

Thu, Sep 04 2014, 1:57 pm

TwinsMommy wrote:

I have no intentions to hurt you, but I am not comfortable going under my username here because my opinion may be unpopular and you may not like me after this. Where did you take the part about "all kids with aggressive autism should be homeschooled" from? Certainly not from my post. You can take all the time you want to teach your child whatever you want, but as long as he is a danger to other students he needs full-day one-on-one monitoring to prevent him from biting other kids. Putting them in a 50/50 position to be bitten because he's learning social skills is dangerous.

imaima

Thu, Sep 04 2014, 1:59 pm

amother wrote:

Special needs is not an excuse for knowingly allowing a child to remain in the setting where he may bite another child, no matter how hard the parents and school are working to control it. If your child has bitten more than once he has the potential to inflict danger on other kids and should be removed from that setting. Unless, of course, the other parents sign on the dotted line that they're okay putting their kids in harm's way while your son learns to behave.

You know what? ANY child can bite your child ANY time. If the child was not SN, you would not have written that, right?

Barbara

Thu, Sep 04 2014, 2:00 pm

MaBelleVie wrote:

Kindergarten is old for for neurotypical kids to be impulsively biting. I would find out from the school whether they have addressed other behaviors previously with this child. It doesn't matter who the child is so much as ensuring that the classroom will be a safe place for your own kids.

Would you feel comfortable with the school providing that kind of information about your child? Let's say your child was accused of pushing another child. In kindergarten. On her first day. Would you feel comfortable with the school discussing any information that it happened to have about your child with other parents?

TwinsMommy

Thu, Sep 04 2014, 10:00 pm

Quote:

I have no intentions to hurt you, but I am not comfortable going under my username here because my opinion may be unpopular and you may not like me after this. Where did you take the part about "all kids with aggressive autism should be homeschooled" from? Certainly not from my post. You can take all the time you want to teach your child whatever you want, but as long as he is a danger to other students he needs full-day one-on-one monitoring to prevent him from biting other kids. Putting them in a 50/50 position to be bitten because he's learning social skills is dangerous.

---------------------
I forgot how to quote on imamother again darnit! Smile

ok so what does full day one on one monitoring mean to you----- is he allowed in the building with the other students, but just not in the same room? So he should have a classroom and teacher to himself then? As it stands my son is in the same room with other kids but has an adult super glued to him at all times. but occasionally, she turns her back or takes a 2 minute bathroom break. My son still bites. So without telling me to homeschool, what WOULD you be telling me to do with my child exactly?

what's a 50/50 position?

imasinger

Thu, Sep 04 2014, 10:36 pm

Schools have an incredibly challenging mandate.

Every kid should be able to feel safe.

And every kid should be educated.

That's a tall order. Amazingly, a significant percentage of the time (not all), both goals are achieved. It takes a lot of study, practical training, and expertise for schools to get the balance right. And sometimes, there are errors, and a kid is bitten. Or bullied. Or not given the support they need to succeed. But many times, the issue is corrected, and everyone ends up thriving.

The problem I have with amother's approach is that it only works by rejecting a child with issues. Far better to educate that child, while keeping an eye on the general safety of all. Someone both knowledgeable and wise makes that decision, as opposed to any one fearful mother who doesn't have access to the big picture.

amother

Thu, Sep 04 2014, 10:54 pm

I forgot how to quote on imamother again darnit! Smile

MaBelleVie

Fri, Sep 05 2014, 12:15 am

Barbara wrote:

I would not put pushing in the same category as biting, at all. Regardless, I didn't mean that the parents should be given a run down on all previous incidents with this child. I meant that the parents should ensure that the school is taking steps to address behaviors that are not isolated.

My child was punched in the face on the playground. Two four year old boys. The school did not tell me who did it (although my son did, on his own) but they did tell me that it was unprovoked, and they shared the steps they had taken immediately afterward to hopefully prevent an incident like that from reoccurring. They also indicated that it was not an isolated incident, but that they were taking ongoing measures to address the child's behavior. Nothing specific, just enough to assure me that they were on top of things in a real way. I appreciated that, and I think it reflected well on the school.

Barbara

Fri, Sep 05 2014, 12:25 am

imasinger wrote:

Unfortunately, more often than not, someone with one eye on the budget and the other eye on the number of years to retirement makes those decisions.

But you're right that none of us know the whole picture. There's clearly a difference between the preschool version of Hannibal Lechter who, if released from his restraints for a moment would run wild through the classroom biting everyone in sight; and a child who has not learned to control himself entirely and who, under certain limited circumstances, might occasionally bite or hit if there is no intervention, and who has an aid (for other reasons mostly) who can and does intervene as necessary. Placing the former in a classroom without very strict controls poses a danger to the other students, and IMNSHO, the safety of the group has to come first. The latter doesn't pose a risk significantly beyond the risk posed by the average child.

And the last is the point that most people seem to forget. That the average ordinary kid can easily hurt another kid. Most kids outgrow biting by kindergarten. But they still poke and hit and shove. They say mean things and exclude and refuse to share. The world of children is a messy place. They're learning, and if we're lucky, they'll eventually get it. If amother wants to exclude a child because chances are, he will bite once or twice during the year, why not exclude the kid who said something mean about him at recess, or who played a little too rough and hurt another child. Those kids have the same likelihood of hurting someone.

No answers here, I guess.