"We are too Machshiv Torah to homeschool"

morah

Wed, Sep 10 2014, 12:04 pm

Maya wrote:

Yes, of course we are allowed to talk about our interests. But if they are unconventional, we should expect to be judged and receive hurtful comments. You can't expect everyone to be open to all ideas.

If you can't handle the backlash and understand that people may think differently than you do, maybe you shouldn't be talking about it.

There's a difference between "talking about it" in an in-your-face kind of way by always somehow making the conversation about you and your different choices, and talking about it because it organically came up in the course of normal conversation. If the OP is chatting with someone, and they ask her "so, where does little Yanky go to school?" is she still deserving of rude comments when she answers truthfully?

Scrabble123

Wed, Sep 10 2014, 12:04 pm

Maya wrote:

If something really irks me to the point that I can't let it go, I reexamine my decisions and analyze my feelings to see what is causing the insecurities. It's the way of the world. People's view differ, and people say stupid things.

This is great advice. I do this all the time. Usually I am able to find something in myself that triggered me being so bothered. When there is nothing "inside me" allowing me to be bothered, I'm just too confident and comfortable with my decisions to care what anyone has to say about them.

Scrabble123

Wed, Sep 10 2014, 12:08 pm

morah wrote:

No one is ever deserving of rude comments. Sometimes people get fed up with an impossible person and make a rude remark, that while inappropriate was warranted, but we are not speaking about that here. Even when someone is open about doing something different they do not deserve to be bashed or attacked for me, and all the more so in a situation like you. Still, part of the "cons" we have to weigh when making a decision is how others will react to hearing something different. I know that if I'm going to wear a different style shaitel that some people will love it and others will tell me (Like I have all the time) "I hate your shaitel.. it is bla bla." I considered that before I made the decision to wear a shaitel that is not the "norm." Obviously homeschooling is an issue that "hits home" more than a shaitel, but I don't really feel like exposing personal aspects of myself now. When that happens OP should again, just feel her confidence in her decision, a little frustration about how people are ignorant/immature/rude/conforming/etc., and a lot of positivity about herself and her future which will help the comments not bring her down.

Maya

Wed, Sep 10 2014, 12:20 pm

morah wrote:

Sensitive issues often come up in everyday conversation, and people will say all sorts of things about them. As Scrabble said, it's okay to be irked and then move on. Dwelling on it for days is not helpful to anyone, and only points to insecurities. I'm sorry, but I feel that's the truth.

Maya

Wed, Sep 10 2014, 12:31 pm

HonesttoGod wrote:

So now it is ok to be rude and make nasty/snide remarks because "the listener should be strong enough to let it wash over her" ??
What a way to live! I am glad I don't know you in real life!

Is that what I said? I said we must be kind to other people, but you can't change the world, only your reaction to it.

And if you'd know me in real life, you'd know that I never ever say a bad word to anyone. Ever. Perhaps I'm harsher here online, but only in matters of truth, not putting anyone down personally. Or at least I try.

Maya

Wed, Sep 10 2014, 12:32 pm

sequoia wrote:

Never mind. I am not and never was part of any insular, insularish, or insularesque community, so all this sounds quite savage to me. It's not normal to make rude remarks about something you are unfamiliar with. And it's not normal to expect that. My friends don't do that.

Also, ignorance does not equal "dissenting opinion."

This is not about remarks being made. This is about our REACTIONS to those remarks, WHICH ARE WRONG and should not be said.

morah

Wed, Sep 10 2014, 12:33 pm

Maya wrote:

It's a good idea to develop a thick skin. THat doesn't absolve the rest of the world from their responsibility not to say stupid things.

Scrabble123

Wed, Sep 10 2014, 12:36 pm

HonesttoGod wrote:

So now it is ok to be rude and make nasty/snide remarks because "the listener should be strong enough to let it wash over her" ??
What a way to live! I am glad I don't know you in real life!

One minute. No one here ever said that making rude comments is acceptable. I even mentioned that it is totally unacceptable. Maya said that there is a difference between genuinely rude remarks, and remarks that one may perceive as rude. Additionally, the strength one feels when a real rude remarks comes their way comes from strong emotional health and security. That is a positivity I worked very hard to achieve, and I continue to work on feeling. It no ways gives someone a right to speak rudely. Since OP is not a therapist for all of the rude people on the planet, and is also not someone in power who can use fear as a way to stop the RUDENESS, I just want her to feel confident in herself and remind herself that she is doing the right thing. I think it may help her deal with the pain and move forward positively. That is how I deal with rude remarks, as well as through using self inspection. What do you do? I'm trying really hard to explain things with sensitivity, and I hope that that sensitivity is not lost because I see that it is important here. I think that Maya is trying to say the same thing, she is just being more matter-of-the-fact.

Scrabble123

Wed, Sep 10 2014, 12:39 pm

morah wrote:

It's a good idea to develop a thick skin. THat doesn't absolve the rest of the world from their responsibility not to say stupid things.

Thick skin is very different than a healthy, emotional confidence in oneself and one's decision making. I was born with thick skin, but didn't develop the latter until much later. It actually helped me way more than the thick skin did because it encouraged me to develop a much truer from of confidence rather than just not being bothered. In fact, when you actually acknowledge and validate your pain, but move forward with a positive reaction your confidence and decision making are only strengthened.

morah

Wed, Sep 10 2014, 12:44 pm

Maya wrote:

I didn't say it did. Read my comment above, in response to sequoias post.

Can anyone point to the post where I'm condoning rude comments being made?I don't remember ever saying that.

I know you're not condoning it. But you are putting too much onus on OP to not get irritated. It's a lot easier to tell people "just don't let it bother you"- well yeah, you're not the one hearing these things day after day (I mean in this particular case. Maybe you get bothered about other things in your day-to-day life). Let's just acknowledge that people say dumb things, and they're wrong, even if OP could stand to make herself a little less sensitive.

Maya

Wed, Sep 10 2014, 12:45 pm

morah wrote:

I did acknowledge that. Several times.

But I still stand by my original point.

amother

Wed, Sep 10 2014, 5:44 pm

OP here.

Maya and Scrabble, can we move past how sensitive I seem to you and can we also move past both of you continuously supporting your posts with more posts repeating how important it is to be confident and sure of yourself and your decisions, and can we go back to the topic of this thread?

I posted to vent, true, but also to educate. To discuss with Imamothers the close-minded approach many people in the frum community have to, well, basically to everything. To show how rude and insensitive comments can be very hurtful.

You are right, Maya, that I did not request only certain types of responses in my OP, and I appreciate your post brushing off the offensive comment of "I could never do that" and insisting that I be less sensitive. I appreciate it because it highlights exactly what I am talking about. I am talking about community coercion into being exactly the same. I am talking about friends and family who put pressure on each other to be the same by making snide comments about anything that is different, and by telling those who act differently than expected to be less sensitive to the comments, thereby supporting those who make snide comments.

True, our communities are very close minded to any change or diversion from the norm. I agree with you on that point, Maya. But I completely disagree with you on how to deal with it. Close yourself up from discussion on the topic in order to avoid rude and judgmental reactions? How sad that you think this is your only answer. How about educate those rude and judgmental people? That's what I do. And I have been very successful, even if I have been called a nut job more than once and by more than one person. On the flip side, I have opened some people's minds. I have set an example by bravely going where very few have gone (or in this case, not going where everyone goes: school.) And I have spoken up when someone is rude or hurtful so that they can be made aware of it.

Be less sensitive? Sure, I can do that. But at what cost?

amother

Wed, Sep 10 2014, 8:04 pm

amother wrote:

Ironically, these posts basically support the notion that you can be Charedi/Yeshivish/Heimish/Chassidish and still be a bully.

And then the question becomes, what kind of Middos are we teaching our kids anyway?

Some of the most Chareidi/Yeshivish/Heimish/Chassidish posters on this site are bullies.

Maya

Wed, Sep 10 2014, 8:11 pm

amother wrote:

What's ironic about that? It's no secret that the MO world teaches better middos and more acceptance than the Charedi/Chasidish world.

Maya

Wed, Sep 10 2014, 8:24 pm

amother wrote:

You are right, Maya, that I did not request only certain types of responses in my OP, and I appreciate your post brushing off the offensive comment of "I could never do that" and insisting that I be less sensitive. I appreciate it because it highlights exactly what I am talking about. I am talking about community coercion into being exactly the same. I am talking about friends and family who put pressure on each other to be the same by making snide comments about anything that is different, and by telling those who act differently than expected to be less sensitive to the comments, thereby supporting those who make snide comments.

True, our communities are very close minded to any change or diversion from the norm. I agree with you on that point, Maya. But I completely disagree with you on how to deal with it. Close yourself up from discussion on the topic in order to avoid rude and judgmental reactions? How sad that you think this is your only answer. How about educate those rude and judgmental people? That's what I do. And I have been very successful, even if I have been called a nut job more than once and by more than one person. On the flip side, I have opened some people's minds. I have set an example by bravely going where very few have gone (or in this case, not going where everyone goes: school.) And I have spoken up when someone is rude or hurtful so that they can be made aware of it.

Be less sensitive? Sure, I can do that. But at what cost?

I won't get offended because it's obvious that you don't know me in real life, but I am the last person to conform to community standards. I have already stated that I deal with snide comments regarding EXACTLY THAT all the time, so to say that I support and condone extreme conformity is just ludicrous.

About the bolded, you say you are successful at educating people, yet you come on here venting because you can't get past some rude comments that people make about your choices.

So I ask you the same question: You are raising awareness, but at what cost?