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Are frum people socially awkward?
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frummy613




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 11 2014, 9:12 pm
I was just reading the thread "Jewish Woman" and someone responded that they go to the library just to see non jewish-socially happy healthy people.
This got me thinking, ALOT. How I feel akward to say hi to people and how I haven't got a clue as to continue a conversation with a stranger. Is it because I have been bred to be like this, growing up in a frum community?
Men never hold doors for anyone, people don't even say hi to neighbors they have been living next to for years.
Is this true for you, in your community? Do you agree with this assumption?
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MaBelleVie




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 11 2014, 9:16 pm
This is news to me. That isn't what my community looks like at all. Maybe it has more to do with your specific community and less to do with the frum community in general.
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mommy3b2c




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 11 2014, 9:26 pm
frummy613 wrote:
I was just reading the thread "Jewish Woman" and someone responded that they go to the library just to see non jewish-socially happy healthy people.
This got me thinking, ALOT. How I feel akward to say hi to people and how I haven't got a clue as to continue a conversation with a stranger. Is it because I have been bred to be like this, growing up in a frum community?
Men never hold doors for anyone, people don't even say hi to neighbors they have been living next to for years.
Is this true for you, in your community? Do you agree with this assumption?


Sorry, I find his highly insulting. There are not more socially awkward people in the frum community then anywhere else. I am extremely social, I have conversations with everybody, and I grew up in boro park. Maybe you are, but that doesn't mean everyone is.
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Deep




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 11 2014, 9:40 pm
frummy613 wrote:

Men never hold doors for anyone, people don't even say hi to neighbors they have been living next to for years.


Where on earth do you live?
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sequoia




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 11 2014, 9:54 pm
The frum men I know do hold doors. And many secular men don't. It really varies.
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dimyona




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 11 2014, 9:58 pm
mommy2b2c wrote:
Sorry, I find his highly insulting. There are not more socially awkward people in the frum community then anywhere else. I am extremely social, I have conversations with everybody, and I grew up in boro park. Maybe you are, but that doesn't mean everyone is.


Of course there are friendly people in Boro Park. Having grown up there too, I would know. However, it is true that there are different social norms as to what is considered good manners. There's less pleasantries and chit chat, especially with outsiders. But lots and lots of chessed and communal support. It's just a different culture, which may come across as rude to those outside the community. There was recently an article floating around about this, I think from JITC.
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sequoia




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 11 2014, 10:01 pm
Also it's "awkward."
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Deep




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 11 2014, 10:09 pm
My amazing Quebecoise neighbour is a clinical psychologist who has spent 3 decades traveling and treating indigenous people around the globe. Her favorite line is, "We are all 99% the same". There are all types in every society.
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zaq




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 11 2014, 10:09 pm
sequoia wrote:
Also it's "awkward."


No, it's "ackward". Frum people, being more sheltered than most, are horrified by goings-on that others take in stride, and can be heard gasping "ACK!!!!" when exposed to unseemly antics.
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amother


 

Post Thu, Sep 11 2014, 10:28 pm
Some are. Some people will stare unblinking. It is rude. I tell the story of being at an A Time buffet dinner and the ladies were pushing and shoving to get to the food so hard I was knocked right out of my shoes. I have been rammed with a shopping cart because a man wouldn't speak with me to say excuse me. Of course he didn't apologize. The collectors are the worst. Ladies demanding rides instead of asking politely are the seems worse. The third worse is people pushing and shoving to get Shabbos flowers. Regular graceful social norms are lacking in a large part of the population.
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frummy613




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 11 2014, 10:32 pm
oops! my bad- I used to be so good at spelling.....oh well...
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debsey




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 11 2014, 10:32 pm
We are raised to be socially competent in our own culture. So for example if you're raised in Boro Park, you'll have social competence for Boro Park social events, But if you use your Boro Park social skills in a different environment, they may not translate so well. This is no different than a Taiwanese person belching at the end of the meal to as a compliment to the cook. In Taiwan - that's great manners! In Boro Park, not so much!
Are frum people socially awkward in their own culture? No. Do some frum people need training in social skills for interfacing with "the outside world?" Sure. Do some figure it out on their own? Yes.
Do people from "the outside world" need training when coming into the frum world? Sure. They need to hear - if you're coming to do home therapy in Williamsburg, and you're a male therapist - don't shake the mom's hand or whatever.
Why would you expect people to be instantly socially comfortable in a culture not their own? Social skills are learned behaviors.
I like what Deep said - we are all more similar than different........


Last edited by debsey on Thu, Sep 11 2014, 10:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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sequoia




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 11 2014, 10:40 pm
Frum = Boro Park. Good to know.

Let me rephrase my answer: the frum people I know are no more socially awkward than the general population. No clue about BP, never having been there.
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debsey




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 11 2014, 10:47 pm
sequoia wrote:
Frum = Boro Park. Good to know.

Let me rephrase my answer: the frum people I know are no more socially awkward than the general population. No clue about BP, never having been there.


I said - "for example", Boro Park. If anything, I was thinking "apt to accidentally be socially awkward in secular contexts = Boro Park."
But it could be Lakewood, Williamsburg, or Minneapolis!
How many comedy skits have to do with things like the uneducated rube farmer boy comes to the big city and doesn't have the social skills to cope? The entire show Beverly Hillbillies was about that!
It has nothing to do with a "frum" thing and everything to do with - social skills don't always translate across cultures. ChillPill No one is saying you must be from Boro Park to be frum! Let's stick to the topic at hand, please.
(I edited my post to put the words "for example" in bold, just in case you're still offended)


Last edited by debsey on Thu, Sep 11 2014, 10:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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zaq




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 11 2014, 10:47 pm
Well said, debsey!
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dimyona




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 11 2014, 10:49 pm
The staring is an issue. Happening to me right now in real time Sad. Its just cultural though. No harm intended.
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sequoia




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 11 2014, 10:51 pm
I am saying that you can be frum while not being very different from the surrounding culture. At least in terms of manners. Where I live men may not have long chats with women but they will certainly say, "Hello," "Excuse me," and so on. No reason for anyone to be rude.
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UQT




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 11 2014, 10:52 pm
Non Jewish people are the perfect neighbors who always say hi? How about all the crazy stories you hear in the news about people dead 7 years in a garage or in Ohio the women who were kidnapped for years in a house and the neighbors were oblivious. Call frum people nosy, but if something happened to us c'v our neighbors will be there to step in.
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amother


 

Post Thu, Sep 11 2014, 10:55 pm
dimyona wrote:
The staring is an issue. Happening to me right now in real time Sad. Its just cultural though. No harm intended.


It is socially awkward. I don't think those that are socially awkward intent any harm. They are just strange.

The lack of manners amount certain circles is so bad that I know of one chassidish kollel that is teaching basic etiquette. At least they recognize the problem. There is your answer OP.
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MaBelleVie




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 11 2014, 11:20 pm
It isn't frum culture though, it's the culture of specific subgroups. And as mentioned already, that exists across the board, not only among frum people.
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