Are frum people socially awkward?

amother

Thu, Sep 11 2014, 8:32 pm

On the whole, no. But, I think that frum people as a group are more socially awkward than the average group of people. My friend (who is a BT) and I have had many discussions about the insularity of people who went to Day School - which is somewhat natural, given that Day Schools are more insular than say, public school or even Catholic school. If you don't know how to communicate with someone from a different culture, then you will probably be awkward.

amother

Thu, Sep 11 2014, 8:34 pm

Anon because I've told people this story.

When I went to Lakewood for the first time, I walked into a pizza shop and everyone except for very small children were wearing black, grey, and navy blue and looked like they were going to a funeral. I was 100% tznius - wearing a lime green shirt, no stockings, and a colorful skirt - but the whole restaurant turned around and looked at me. That was my most awkward frum experience.

mommy3b2c

Thu, Sep 11 2014, 8:58 pm

sequoia wrote:

Frum = Boro Park. Good to know.

Let me rephrase my answer: the frum people I know are no more socially awkward than the general population. No clue about BP, never having been there.

Thank you. Exactly this. And I know lots of frum people from bp and elsewhere.

Learning

Thu, Sep 11 2014, 9:01 pm

Especially in Israel. Frum people considered rude. Maybe they feel superior in their own group. Also it is lack of westernized social skills. I remember one chasidish man spit on the bus floor in Israel some 20 years ago when I visited there. The entire bus started screaming at him and called him disgusting. The staring is extremely rude and arrogant. It is not just different culture. Frum people are very nice to you when you are in the "group" or if you are a chessed project otherwise they can be very rude.

Last edited by Learning on Thu, Sep 11 2014, 9:05 pm; edited 1 time in total

mommy3b2c

Thu, Sep 11 2014, 9:01 pm

amother wrote:

Im sure they did (not).

I guarantee nobody cared. And plenty of people in lake wood wear color.

I am so sick of tired of people on this site bashing lakewood and chassidim and yeshivish.....

Frum jews have their flaws like every other group of people. No more, no less.

I happen to be very friendly with everybody and can keep up a conversation about anything with any random person I meet. Not saying everybody is like me, but most people are not socially awkward. For ex: when people ask me questions about judaism, I usually get into pholosophical discussions with them and have a whole conversation with them. Thats me. I was once with my sil when someone asked her about her sons peyos. She politely answered the question, smiled and moved on. Two different reactions. Neither of them socially awkward. I was brought in a very open minded home. She was brought up in a very sheltered home. We reacted differet ways. Neither of them socially awkward.

If you know some socially awkward frum people yay for you!

I know some socially awkward secular people, that must mean all secular people are socially awkward. Right?

mommy3b2c

Thu, Sep 11 2014, 9:14 pm

Learning wrote:

This is so true. I am frum. And I am so nasty to anyone whos not exactly like me. I love being nasty dont you? Whats more, I never met a non frum person who was rude. Secular people are so nice, I wish we could be more like them.

amother

Thu, Sep 11 2014, 9:21 pm

mommy2b2c wrote:

The MO population found just the right balance between frum and secular so the chances of meeting a rude, socially awkward MO person is 50/50.

dimyona

Thu, Sep 11 2014, 9:23 pm

mommy2b2c wrote:

The overly defensive way in which you express your indignation is sometimes offensive in its own right. This is a site for frum women; no one is out to get you or bash you or anyone else. Relax, and look in the mirror.

mommy3b2c

Thu, Sep 11 2014, 9:37 pm

dimyona wrote:

Im actually usually very polite even when people write ridiculous things. I honestly dont want to hurt anyones feelings. Maybe its late at night but these comments are really annoying me and im trying to get people to realize how silly they sound through the use of sarcasm.

"This is a site for frum women"- why do you think im so annoyed? So many people bash frum people. Why do we have to bash our own?

As for being personally offended, I assure you I am not. I am not socially awkward. Nor do I belong to any of the groups of people most often bashed on this site. I just cant stand frum women constantly bashing other frum women.

dimyona

Thu, Sep 11 2014, 10:01 pm

mommy2b2c wrote:

If you don't take it personally, then why do you always say how offended and insulted you are every time there's some critique? It's not bashing if we can have a respectful dialogue about things that need to be worked on as a community. I think I was once attacked personally for that in a very harsh and immature manner. It's pretty counterproductive.

r_ch

Thu, Sep 11 2014, 10:12 pm

Nope. From my knowledge they are mostly friendly and chatty. Well... Let me think. People of an older generation, men included, are more friendly and chatty than the younger generation. They are chatty between themselves Very Happy

They can be awkward to outsiders though, but not on purpose.

ora_43

Thu, Sep 11 2014, 10:39 pm

dimyona wrote:

Did you not read the post she was responding to? "Learning" claimed that frum Israelis "lack Westernized social skills" and are objectively "extremely rude and arrogant."

If that's not bashing, what on earth is?

shabbatiscoming

Thu, Sep 11 2014, 10:52 pm

Learning wrote:

Excuuuuse me???? Frum people in Israel are rude? Lack of western social skills? Generalizing much? Stereotyping much? What a rude post!

As for staring, that is not just done in Israel. I experienced that in america more than 25 years ago...in boropark. Its terrible, absolutely terrible.

And what you wrote about being in their own group and being nice only then, in my entire life I never experienced anything like that.

I grew up in a MO community. We interacted with non Jews all of the time. No awkwardness at all. It was part of life.

DrMom

Thu, Sep 11 2014, 10:58 pm

Learning wrote:

In my experience, the social skills of DL and secular Jews are similar, perhaps since both are highly exposed to mainstream Western culture. That's not to say that a DL teenager would be comfortable at a dance club, or that a secular teen is likely to be comfortable at a Bnei Akiva meeting, but in work settings or public settings -- esp among adults -- the degree of social interaction is similar. I would say the same is true for less insular haredi Jews as well.

IMO, more insular groups tend to develop their own social behaviors, which translates into "poor social skills." For example, small-scale social interactions with the opposite sx: In some communities the "proper" thing to do is minimize interaction (don't hold doors open for/talk more than necessary with/make eye contact with the opposite sx), whereas such behaviors are usually interpreted as rude in mainstream Western culture.

DrMom

Thu, Sep 11 2014, 11:00 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

I agree about the staring. Although I find staring more common among children of all sectors in Israel than in the US.

ora_43

Thu, Sep 11 2014, 11:00 pm

Since OP seems sincere, I'll give a genuine answer: no, it's not because you're frum. It's very normal to have trouble conversing with strangers. That's more of a personality thing than a frum/not frum thing.

Not speaking to your neighbors is totally normal if you live in a big city. In a big city, it would be impossible to live life with small town manners (imagine stopping to say "hi" to every one of the hundreds of people you walk past on the way to the store... ). So cities have their own social code, which includes giving each other more space.

For that matter, even in small towns it's normal to talk to a neighbor once or twice, realize that they aren't really the kind of person you're going to be friends with, and have no further interactions beyond nodding "hello" if you run into them.

And finally, a tip on social non-awkwardness: in both frum society and society at large, it's considered a faux pas to ask a group of people, essentially, "So, are you guys inferior to normal people?" Questions about frum life (or midwestern life, or Mexican life - whoever it is you're talking to) are fine, but questions that could come across as judgmental need to be worded very, very carefully.

In this case, I'd go for something more like, "I've noticed that in frum communities, people tend not to [whatever]. Do you think that could lead to social awkwardness for some people? How do you think we can raise frum children who aren't shy in social situations?" IE - instead of "I think you might be doing it wrong," more of a "how can we do this right" kind of vibe.

mommy3b2c

Fri, Sep 12 2014, 5:12 am

dimyona wrote:

I am curious to know when I attacked you? I am usually not harsh at all and re-read my posts a few times. Last night I was just really annoyed. Regarding being offended, I am not offended for myself, I am annoyed that frum people are constantlay basing frum people on frum site with baseless comments. Like this one or that chassidim dont wash their hands with soap. My husband hates chassidim and is constantly bashing them. I always have to defend them. Then I come on here and I have to defend frum people as a whole. I really dont get all this frum people are so lacking in all normal areas.... Its really starting to get on my nerves. As for being immature, believe me im not. If you feel I wrote something immature please let me know what. Id like to read it.

Ruchel

Fri, Sep 12 2014, 5:18 am

Pretty sure some find the frei ppl very awkward when they may mention "their boyfriend" at the shabbes table or attend a simcha in slim jean.

Different culture... I've never felt so loud and awkward than among high class China.

Now, I know very rude ppl in allllll circles. This generation is ill bred Sad