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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Infants

Vaccinations

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Rainbows613

Sun, Sep 28 2014, 1:57 pm

I'm in Israel and a bit lost regarding vaccines... I have been told to say no to the OPV - live polio vaccine. And no to the chicken pox vaccine.. Anyone else have any other no-no's and advise for me??

Think1st

Sun, Sep 28 2014, 2:16 pm

Good that you are giving it some thought, maybe do some more home work, so YOU call the shots, not what you are being told

Yes OPV can cause the virus it is claimed to prevent since it is a live vaccine

sequoia

Sun, Sep 28 2014, 2:23 pm

Told by WHOM?

Rainbows613

Sun, Sep 28 2014, 2:40 pm

Siblings.. I have read up about the vaccines as much as I can and discussed it with family and friends but just interested if anyone else has any other tips.. In Israel you need to be fore-armed for this sort of thing..

sequoia

Sun, Sep 28 2014, 3:03 pm

Have you consulted your kids' pediatrician about this?

Rainbows613

Sun, Sep 28 2014, 3:09 pm

My kids pediatrician here in Israel? He won't be much use-he'll tell me to follow the protocol that tipat chalav (baby clinic) do! I can't phone my GP in chul...

black sheep

Sun, Sep 28 2014, 3:29 pm

my advice is to do all the recommended vaccinations at the recommended ages. unless your pediatrician recommends otherwise for medical reasons.

Lady Bug

Sun, Sep 28 2014, 3:35 pm

Some people delay the chicken pox vaccine so that their child has a chance to get immunity by catching the disease. Here you need it in order to enroll in school, so you can delay that until about 4-5. After that, you should probably give the shot, as you obviously don't have too many chances of catching the disease. Regarding OPV, is there any way to get the IPV instead? All the other shots you should just give on schedule (or follow a delayed schedule, but for G-d's sake, have a schedule).

Rainbows613

Sun, Sep 28 2014, 11:00 pm

Apparently there is a follow up vaccine for the chicken pox when kids are older-we plan on moving back to Chul in about 2 yrs.. Morning fellow Israelis anyone have any input?

chani8

Sun, Sep 28 2014, 11:30 pm

With my bio-kids, I prefer to push the vaccines off until the children are older, close to 3yo. The way I did it last time, is to just not go to tipat chalav. Once you go, you'll have a hard time fighting them and the pressure.

I've been to tipat chalav a lot with my foster babies and so far there haven't been any terrible side effects or reactions to vaccines.

Wasn't there a recent tragedy of like 15 or more children dying from a vaccine in another country?

shabbatiscoming

Sun, Sep 28 2014, 11:38 pm

Rainbows613 wrote:

Apparently there is a follow up vaccine for the chicken pox when kids are older-we plan on moving back to Chul in about 2 yrs.. Morning fellow Israelis anyone have any input?

Kids here in Israel in school (Im assuming not some of the private schools, but some private schools do) get some vaccines in first grade and others later on. My daughter just had the MMRV vaccine last week, in school.
So, that vaccine has the chickenpox vaccine in it. Just informing you about that so that if you decide not to give your children the chicken pox vaccine, you have to send in a note with the child so that they, the nurses who do the vaccines, dont give it to your child.

ETA: This is more so about the booster to the first chicke pox vaccine.

Scrabble123

Mon, Sep 29 2014, 3:39 am

There were definitely very rare cases of OPV causes polio, which is why it is not offered in countries without a risk of an outbreak; however it offers the best protection against any threat of polio. I believe that Israel does not give the OPV as the first vaccine against polio, instead giving IPV first. You should check with your doctor, but I believe that they haven't seen any severe side effects from giving the OPV after the IPV, and that doing so eliminates the risk but still provides all of the benefits of OPV. Also, just letting you know that even if you choose not to give the OPV vaccine, if your child is around other children who received it, she/he may be exposed anyways. Practically everyone over 20 received OPV and we're very thankful for the eradication of polio! You should really discuss it with your child's pediatrician.

I would also advise you to give all of the required vaccines at the recommended ages.

amother

Mon, Sep 29 2014, 6:34 am

...

eschaya

Mon, Sep 29 2014, 6:38 am

chani8 wrote:

Actually, there have been recent cases of children dying... from not being vaccinated (15 from whooping cough this year). "Whooping cough, mumps and measles are making an alarming comeback, thanks to seriously misguided parents" (WSJonline).
OP - don't just get your "advice" from sibling or friends. Don't read hyperbolic stories on the internet and count that as research. Speak to confirmed medical professionals. Then make your decision.

smss

Mon, Sep 29 2014, 6:38 am

http://www.bookdepository.com/.....80528

this book is probably the most unbiased of the reading that I've done on vaccines. what I like about it especially is that he goes through each disease, how it presents in a mild/moderate/severe case, if it is or isn't treatable, and how common it is. that's information you need to know before deciding to delay/skip vaccines. good luck with your decision.

Hashem_Yaazor

Mon, Sep 29 2014, 7:54 am

eschaya wrote:

WADR, this is an article without any sources for the data (written by someone who profits from vaccination) and could easily be dismissed.
I looked at it because I'm trying to find data of how many deaths from pertussis this year, and I can't find it (CDC doesn't have data from this year easily accessible -- California has 1 death reported, 2 more from onset in 2013 attributed to that year) and that's where the outbreak was.

It is also important to note that most deaths from pertussis are in infants under 3 months of age. That is a very scary time indeed, but babies aren't able to gain much immunity in that time period. The 2 month vaccine would help somewhat, but not for the 2 months prior to the vaccine.

But of course this is a complete digression to what the OP is asking.

amother

Mon, Sep 29 2014, 8:10 am

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

Part of the reason that most parents are careful about taking out their newborns into crowds until the 2 month vaccination.

m in Israel

Mon, Sep 29 2014, 8:15 am

Scrabble123 wrote:

Actually, OPV is not part of the standard vaccine list in Israel at all. Since 2003 they have been doing the same thing as in the U.S. -- a total of 5 doses of IPV. However last year, as a result of finding traces of polio in sewage in the south of Israel, they started a campaign ("just Two Drops") to give the OPV to all children who had not yet received it but who had already received at least one dose of IPV. Although it was also administered through the Tipat Chalav system, it was not part of the regular schedule, and still is not.

And you are correct, giving the OPV to someone who has already received the IPV pretty much eliminates the risk of contracting polio from the vaccine, a risk which is pretty small to begin with. However, obviously it does not change other potential side effects from the vaccine, including reactions to other ingredients that may be contained in the vaccine. The main advantage of OPV vs. IPV is it prevents you from being a carrier of the disease. Meaning someone who is immune to polio because of receiving the IPV may still carry the virus in their digestive tract and pass it on to someone else who is not immune. The OPV kills the virus even in the digestive tract so you cannot carry it to someone else. So it is much more effective at promoting herd immunity and preventing the spread of outbreaks, but it is doubtful as to whether it provides any additional personal protection to the individual who receives it compared to someone who just receives the IPV. (This information is from the CDC in the U.S.)

Scrabble123

Mon, Sep 29 2014, 8:43 am

m in Israel wrote:

I never stated that OPV is on the Israeli recommended vaccination list. I spoke about OPV, and then later stated that I would advise OP to get all of the recommended vaccines at the recommended ages.

I am well aware of why Israel instituted the OPV for children who had never received it. I am also aware that they took care to ensure it was after an initial dose of IPV.

The OPV vaccine does cause shedding, which is why virtually everyone, including children who were never vaccinated with OPV will be polio immune if they lived during a time when OPV was routinely given. It actually considered one of the malas of that vaccine. As I stated before, the risks were the reason it was removed from the market of countries WITHOUT an active risk of polio infection (I.e. no polio in sewers or no confirmed cases - yes, I know Israel had no confirmed cases). I also know that OPV is great because it protects a person from being a carrier.

Anyways, when I was going to travel last year with my friend and her children to Israel, the travel vaccine department in the US advised her that all of her children (even though who had completed all of their IPV vaccines) should receive a booster of the IPV, but that since my friend and I were vaccinated with OPV years ago, we did not need to receive a booster of IPV unless we insisted. We do not know the long term immune response of IPV, since it has not been around so so long, so it is quite possible that OPV provides longer term protection, which is most often the case with live vaccines. That was from a travel vaccine clinic, not a personal doctor's opinion.

m in Israel

Mon, Sep 29 2014, 8:56 am

Scrabble123 wrote:

I never stated that OPV is on the Israeli recommended vaccination list. I spoke about OPV, and then later stated that I would advise OP to get all of the recommended vaccines at the recommended ages.

I was responding to the comment that you made saying

Quote:

I believe that Israel does not give the OPV as the first vaccine against polio, instead giving IPV first.

which seemed to imply that Israel gives does give the OPV as a routine vaccine, albeit after giving the IPV first. I was trying to explain that this was not the case, and that there are many parents in Israel who follow the recommended vaccinations but do not give the OPV which is a separate issue.

It could be I misunderstood you and you were saying that EVEN when they give the OPV they only give it to those who have first received the IPV, in which case you are correct. (Or more technically, you are correct that the recommendation is that. Unfortunately anecdotally it seemed that many Tipat Chalav nurses themselves were not familiar with the Misrad Habriut recommendations, and did not consistently go through the eligibility checklists before offering parents the OPV last year -- but that is a different discussion. . .)

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