Should we move? | Imamother

OOTBubby

Mon, Oct 06 2014, 4:38 pm

Yes, as others have said; Chicago is BIG city, there is traffic (much less so than NY or LA though) and big city feel.

However, I'd challenge the other posters to come up with a smaller city that has the quantity, diversity of and quality of frum schools that you'll find in Chicago. Or of other frum institutions. Sure, NY (and LA, maybe Baltimore, but they're weak in the MO school end), but not any other smaller city in the US. I happen to have DSILs l& DDILs from many cities in the US as well as connections in many cities so I am quite certain of this point.

No one has to like Chicago if they don't want to. Obviously OP has looked at and it seems to meet her needs. Why would someone want to talk her out of that? Her question is regarding leaving EY.

OOTBubby

Mon, Oct 06 2014, 5:24 pm

Peanut2 wrote:

I really love Chicago.

However, there have been some threads recently about South Bend and if you are open to checking out other locations it sounds like a really good fit for you. (Sorry for the unasked for advice. One of the problems with asking about things online...)

South Bend is a great place, but far from a full service Jewish community (yes, I do have personal knowledge of the community).

amother

Mon, Oct 06 2014, 5:54 pm

The problem with a big community with lots of schools is it can become too separate. There start to be politics and people mixing only with their own type. People start getting judged by externals.

South Bend would be good in many ways for OP except the school situation has mixed classes until the kids are big (since there are so few kids).

Quote:

No one has to like Chicago if they don't want to. Obviously OP has looked at and it seems to meet her needs. Why would someone want to talk her out of that?

Because she's just talked to people. She hasn't visited, she hasn't lived there. If she ends up moving to the U.S. the culture shock will be hard no matter where she goes, why make it worse by going to a place that's so different from where she is now and what her personality gravitates toward? We want to help her have a smooth adjustment if they decide to move.

chani8

Tue, Oct 07 2014, 2:45 am

I don't know what you mean about bad middos in Israel. The only bad middos we came across was in RBS from the NY influence. Wink

Southern Israel is warm and friendly and most people speak English even though they're Israeli.

Also, just like any other place in the world, if you need parnossoh, you have to work. If you don't speak the language well, so you work from home. You can make a gan in Hebrew just as easily as in English.

finallyamommy

Tue, Oct 07 2014, 3:40 am

amother wrote:

We looked into a lot of communities, and yes I have visited some, but not all of them. South Bend sounded great, as did other places.. but we wanted a place that has separate schools and all/most of the amenities of a big community like those in NY and NJ without actually living there. So Chicago is where we decided. True, it's more city-like than we'd want, but the rest of the things make up for it.

Although we're still talking about it, it looks like we're planning to stay here, and maybe move out to RBS next year... we'll see!

Thanks to everyone for all your input. It was really, really appreciated.

To those of you who live in EY and are planning to stay, and are not supported by family and are living off your income, are you worried about how you'll pay rent and support the family? I'd really love input from some of you. The americans I know here are either 1. single 2. being supported, at least partially 3. live in tiny, tiny, tiny places (I.e., 6 kids plus the parents in 2 bedrooms, no living room, kitchen tinier than a closet), or 4. own their own place already.
Also, do the bad middos/different culture bother you? They bother me less now, but I'm worried for my kids, though I know that the home has the strongest influence..

We live in EY, plan to stay iy"H, have next to no financial support from family (maybe $50 at each of our birthdays, plus paying for groceries once a year when they visit), and are American. But, yeah, your #3 applies to us. We don't have kids yet but our place is 25 square meters and honestly it works for us, we don't need a lot of space. We have SOME money put away for a down payment, but not really enough to buy in an area we'd actually want to live in. But living in a tiny place is I feel like one of the trade-offs you get for living in EY, especially in Yerushalayim. Things are just not the same as they are in America, and although certain not-nice family members of mine like to exaggerate and claim that I live in dingy squalor and poverty in the tiniest place they've ever seen, well, you can't measure to American standards over here.

amother

Tue, Oct 07 2014, 3:59 am

We recently made Aliyah from Monsey to RBSA. I think the OP will be very happy here. There is a wide range of housing, you get more bang for your buck (people are moving to RBS Gimmel for even more space for less money) a wide range of options for schools (the principal at my son's school told me there were 66 elementary schools in RBSA) and lots of Anglos (not just Americans but South Africans, British, etc.). I find everyone to be very warm and friendly and have excellent midot.

The only issue is I am afraid it will take a long time for my kids to learn Hebrew because so many people speak English.

The one time I experienced typical "nasty" Israeli midot was when I went to beit shemesh proper to register for my aronona and water and they yelled at me because I went when the office is closed.

But there is a lot of support and chessed here if you want it.

amother

Tue, Oct 07 2014, 6:29 am

We live in Israel. We are not supported by our parents. We both work and BH manage nicely financially. We don't own but that doesn't bother me. We did buy a car when we had our 4th kid. I think you don't realize how much more you need to spend in America. Tuition and healthcare alone are generally in the tens of thousands of dollars. I also think that in Israel people are more open to taking what is considered a more menial job. I think it would be difficult for your kids to tell their classmates in Chicago that they father is a cashier....but in Israel it would be less stigmatizing.

But I really wanted to comment on the mentality. I've heard it said that Israelis are like the sabra fruit--prickly on the outside but sweet inside. I recently went through a major medical situation and let me tell you everybody I encountered from the admission woman in the hospital to my surgeon (and even most of the Meuchedet secretaries) were beyond amazing. Helpful, caring, responsive, wishing me refuah shleima. It was so enlightening to me how true that statement is. People would ask me if I'm going back to America to get treated and I would say no way. I felt so supported by the medical system here that I would never leave . By the way I know someone going through a similar medical situation in one of the major medical centers of ny and the difference in pt care is astounding....with Israel winning.

I really think if you view Israelis from that perspective you can see past the outer prickliness and ind the sweet fruit inside.

amother

Tue, Oct 07 2014, 2:46 pm

amother wrote:

Oh also, is it hard grocery shopping? Like one of our good friends there, they have a makolet (expensive-ish) nearby, but I think the actual supermarket is far away. How do people go shopping? Where are the supermarkets, and do people take buses? I always end up having to go with my kids, and I am worried about spending the entire afternoon just to buy a few groceries Smile

There are a lot of shopping options in RBSA. There are three large supermarkets (yesh, zul ba shefa, and best). Yesh is the cheapest I think and Best has all the American products. But there can be long lines especially before Chag. I believe the supermarkets all deliver. I don't have a car so I usually load up the stroller or take advantage of a friend with a car and go shopping with her.

If you have a car and don't mind taking the bus to Bet Shemesh there is osher ad which is the cheapest. But really everything you need you can get on RBSA from clothes to food to housewares. There are four bakeries in the center of town. There are buses and taxis and really everything is within walking distance. The farthest you might walk is a mile. I live a 5 minute walk from the town center and it's very easy for me to shop.

All four medical kupot are here - although Meuchedet has been here the longest. But most drs work for more than one kupah.

There are tons of parks. I don't think you can walk a block without seeing an amazing park. It's really kid friendly.

I don't have teenagers and I hear that there may be some disenfranchised teenagers but I think you get that anywhere. If you have a positive home life and shalom bayis then your kids will be fine wherever you live.

finallyamommy

Mon, Oct 13 2014, 7:54 am

amother wrote:

Yes, overall we're very happy here.

I didn't mention this - maybe I should add it to my post - but my husband is very worried about finances. The chance of him finding another job here is very slim, and he really doesn't want to get depressed at some low-paying israeli job (while he wouldn't even mind a cashier job in america, because the atmosphere is so different - he did a lot of those types of job growing up in europe). But things cost more in america, that's for sure.

The reason I bring this up here is because he can get very stressed about these things, and while you never know what will happen in america, the opportunities are greater, and I think he'd be less stressed about that there.

Sorry, OP, I know this is from page 1, but I was reading back over this thread. If your husband has done army, there are security guard jobs here, such as at schools, that are low-key enough that he would be able to sit and learn a lot of the time. I know people who do it. It's low-pay, but if his kollel is not paying now anyhow, what's the difference?

2BZ

Sun, Oct 26 2014, 2:27 am

Hi,
I just came on Imamother to unwind and saw this intriguing post.
I may be several weeks late to add my 2 cents, but I can probably help you out!
I am from Chicago, lived in RBS for several years until my husband opted out of E"Y.
I went through the homesickness for E"Y that was described here.

Please PM me for I will end up disclosing my identity if I say much more! I have a lot to tell you.

I wish you much hatzlocha in your decision; you sound like an amazing, growth oriented person.
Yes, I miss those kinds of people! They definitely exist here in America but you need to hunt for them...You will find many of them in RBS.