Ebola | Imamother

Rubber Ducky

Tue, Oct 07 2014, 2:15 pm

Well, I was at the fabric store a few days ago and there were 2 West African women ahead of me in line — speaking an African language and both carrying infants wrapped to their backs — and I was surprised at how... ~~uncomfortable~~ freaked out — I felt. I was so relieved to get a different cashier.

So yes, on a visceral level I am worried. I also don't understand why we haven't put any travel restrictions to and from Liberia, Nigeria, and Sierra Leone right now.

Scrabble123

Tue, Oct 07 2014, 2:50 pm

Rubber Ducky wrote:

Travel restrictions would be a terrible idea. It would raise fears, limit aid workers from entering for fears of not being able to return, cause people in such countries to just jump borders and travel from there into the U.S. which could further spread the virus is countries without proper health care systems, result in people illegally being here (and therefore delaying treatment). While a it's a hadry virus, this is not airborn and can be contained right now in the us. It also responds very well to therapies in lab settings, so we need to work on developing hose as best and fast as we can. We need to focus on containing the outbreak in West Africa to ensure our safety and the safety of the world long term.

Last edited by Scrabble123 on Tue, Oct 07 2014, 2:51 pm; edited 1 time in total

Scrabble123

Tue, Oct 07 2014, 2:53 pm

ectomorph wrote:

I am worried about it becoming airborne. Apparently it mutates quickly.

Mutation is complexed and follow a pattern. It's a larger problem for the therapies and vaccines which we have created to target a specific virus. A mutation may less the effect of the therapies.

An avian flu mixing with a human flu once already inside a human cell, therefore allowing the avian flu to infect humans and bypass its cell structure is far scarier and more threatening.

ectomorph

Tue, Oct 07 2014, 2:57 pm

Scrabble123 wrote:

Well, so far there are no therapies and vaccines that are proven - so we're safe from that at least.

Scrabble123

Tue, Oct 07 2014, 3:04 pm

ectomorph wrote:

Well, so far there are no therapies and vaccines that are proven - so we're safe from that at least.

That is because unfortunately there is no money to makes n deep, tropical diseases, but the information and studies we have from virologists and vaccinologist a is that the therapies look more than just promising in the lab setting. We're gimg t start production with FDA approvals on a few of them, and while these products will take time to have ready, they are an important step for the future. I agree that we need to be proactive whereas at this point we are reactive, but I believe we'll be handling it better from here (partly because we have world pressure and personal interest.. So sad).

Frumdoc

Tue, Oct 07 2014, 3:34 pm

There are some travel restrictions, such as the questionnaire the man who flew into Dallasfilled out, which asks if you have been in contact with someone who has or had a fever in the last 21 days, if you have been in contact with someone with suspected ebola etc. This man had, with is neighbours who he suspected/ knew had ebola, but chose to lie on his form, and it is entirely self reported.

So attempted restrictions are probably counterproductive, just like trying to encourage people to self isolate, there is an enormous amount of cultural denial going on, which is very common in such epidemics, esp in rural Africa.

mille

Tue, Oct 07 2014, 5:19 pm

Frumdoc wrote:

Perhaps similar to the nurse in Spain who was diagnosed with ebola recently. She reported no accidental contact with the two priests under her care, both of whom recently died of ebola. I'm not calling her a liar -- but it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility of she falsified information also. Early reports stated that she did not go to a hospital as soon as her first symptom began while she was on vacation, and you'd think that if you were recently in contact with patients with ebola, no matter how rigid your containment procedures, and you get a fever... You'd probably want to check it out.

Practically though, I'm not worried. It's a very very different medical world in the US and other first world countries compared to West Africa. We have actual hospitals, we have containment procedures, we have rigid protocols that are followed... I don't think it will spread rapidly here. We also have the added benefit that it is not a cultural norm to kiss the dead as part of a burial rite, nor are we (in general) inherently afraid of doctors and medical technology so we insist on aiding our ill in the privacy of our own home (which includes coming into contact with bodily fluids), or "stealing" them back from the make-shift hospitals because we believe the doctors are making them sick.

Frumdoc

Wed, Oct 08 2014, 5:47 am

mille wrote:

I agree.

I was concerned at the comments made by the Spanish virologist working in that hospital, who said the precautions taken to protect the health care workers treating the ebola patients who had been retrieved from African countries were inadequate.

Then I watched a clip of the British army medical units practising putting on and taking off their protective clothes, it is easy to contaminate yourself at the removal point, especially when dripping with sweat under 2 plastic layers, and just a touch of the outside material as you take it off, can cause transmission. Easier than we think, they spent 2 days just practising a procedure that takes a good 30 minutes to do properly.

I think we can be over confident of our ability in the West to control the spread of such infections, and the number of level 3 or 4 isolation beds would become rapidly outnumbered if we even had a minor outbreak, minimal compared to what is happening in Africa.

Dolly Welsh

Wed, Oct 08 2014, 12:56 pm

I think washing the hands before touching anything above the neck or below the belt will help.

I am not saying it can't penetrate your arm, if a drop of infected saliva fell onto your bare arm. It would not be good if you had a cut there, or a miniscule skin break there. But. In general, things like this get into your body through the mucous membrane openings: eyes, nose, mouth, and below the belt.

Soap will do it. It rinses away even better than bleach, and bleach is good. But soap rinses better.

Everybody, everybody, gets a sudden eye itch that urgently wants to be scratched; in my opinion that is what happened to that nurse. She took off her gear, and had an instinctive, utterly natural, gesture to scratch her eye. Probably, her own, relatively harmless, sweat was dripping into her eye, and it felt acidy, and hurt, and she didn't stop to control her gesture of wiping her eye. That infected her. She should have stripped every scrap of clothing, and washed, before touching her face. Easy to say.

That is the best defense, hand controlling and hand washing. I concede it is very hard. These hand-to-face gestures are quick and instinctive.

I would not lean my face on my hand either, when tired, or reading.

So that is the choke point, the point where it can be halted: hand carefulness.

In my entirely unexpert opinion. I am no medic of any kind.

Airborne? There are masks against that, perhaps, but handwashing is more important. It is NOT known to be airborne.

The disease can be combatted by soap, but I never heard that people's fears had any effect on it, so let us not spend calories that way; fear only hurts us, not it.

Social breakdown also doesn't cure or prevent disease. Let us hope people remain socially calm and act normal.

morah

Wed, Oct 08 2014, 2:27 pm

The guy in Dallas has died. While I understand that public health officials don't want to sow fear and panic, they are NOT being entirely truthful. Like, they make it sound like transmission is super difficult, and while it's true it's not as easy as a cold or flu, it's definitely easier to catch than "meh, as long as you don't kiss a dead Ebola victim, you're safe". They also have been claiming that it won't be so bad for victims in the US thanks to our superior healthcare system. Yeah, well, tell that to poor Mr. Duncan who just died this morning. While it's possible that he might have survived had he not been sent home the first time he showed up at the hospital, clearly even Western medicine isn't going to save everyone here unless they can get more of that ZMapp stuff going. So color me skeptical of whatever the official word is. This should have been dealt with 6 months ago. Obama was asleep at the switch yet again, surprise, surprise.

chickpea_salad

Sat, Oct 11 2014, 1:31 pm

Scrabble123 is right that an avian flu is much scarier. I think it would be premature to worry about the virus going airborne.

The WHO is predicting 20,000 cases with a 70% mortality rate. So I am worried about those people, their families and the lasting effects the outbreak might have on already unstable regions.

As for western countries, having a person walk into A&E/ER with ebola is a nightmare. The staff will be in close, relatively unprotected contact with the patient.

Right now I am very worried for healthcare professionals, who will be at the greatest risk. The number of ebola beds is limited (think single digits for most western countries) so if an ebola patient transmits the disease to even a small number of health care professionals they are in serious trouble.

When SARS happened, there was pandemic panic, and after it was over there was this feeling like there was an over-reaction, but many of the people who died from the disease in Canada were health care workers or their families.

I am trying to wrap my head around why the borders are not closed to people from infected countries. I understand this is probably my own ignorance, can anyone explain it to me in detail?