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-> Household Management
debsey
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 Mon, Oct 13 2014, 12:11 am
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OP, I'm confused. Everyone posting here seems 2 think it is a no-brainer to get rid of her. She's not doing what you need, so why keep her? So I'm curious, what is making you hesitate? Why do you need validation on this? In other words, why KEEP her?
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Butterfly
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Mon, Oct 13 2014, 12:22 am
| amother wrote: | | I'm having trouble with my cleaning lady- she decides what she can and can't do. Like, she will do my laundry, but not fold it and put it away. THe thing is, and I have told her before, I need the opposite- it's easy for me to throw in a load of laundry, it is the folding and putting away hat takes a lot of time and what I need help with. Also, she keeps putting toys away in the playroom, even though I tell her no, that is the kids' job to do (and if they don't, that room doesn't get vacuumed until they do). But she spends the time and effort doing it anyway (to avoid putting away the laundry maybe?) Also, I don't usually have her do the guest room but I was having guests for YT, so I asked her to prepare it- and she said no, she can't. I work f/t, so it is very important to me that I get help where I feel I need it. I'm thinking of replacing my cleaning lady because she's really not making my life easier and refusing to take care of things I need her to take care of, but when I've told her I need X done, she just says no cleaner would do that, it is not reasonable to expect a cleaner to do that. So- is she right? Or will someone else be willing to the the chores that I need done? |
Please help me understand the logic; Why would bending to the ground picking up toys and placing them in their cubbies be easier than folding and putting away laundry. Laundry can be folded while one sits comfortably on the sofa, and putting it away usually doesn't take long.
You haven't specified what it was she claimed that no cleaner would do. If it's about washing walls from the ceiling down or cleaning windows from the outside she may have a valid claim. There are agencies who instruct their employees to refuse those jobs because those can be dangerous, and the agencies may be responsible for liability fees in case the cleaner is injured at her job.
If one hires a steady cleaner it's always best to go over all the details with her and see if she agrees with everything you expect from her. Perhaps a written agreement would be most ideal...
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amother
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Mon, Oct 13 2014, 12:36 am
| eema of 3 wrote: | | Of course you have the right to ask for whatever you want, but if you feel that something is beneath YOU, don't be surprised if your cleaning lady feels that it's below her too. She is there to help you, but that doesn't mean you can treat her as sub human. |
Asking someone to do their job is not treating them as as subhuman. Paying someone to clean my floors is fine. Making them eat off of them would be treating someone as subhuman.
I can make more money doing my professional work. I can bill out at $325 an hour. I pay $10 an hour to my cleaning lady. It makes sense for me to pay her to do the tasks that are worth $10 an hour.
If I could earn $325 scrubbing floors with a toothbrush, I would easily do it because I don't find the work degrading. I find the opportunity cost of me doing it too high because I could be doing other things.
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Raisin
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Mon, Oct 13 2014, 4:04 am
| debsey wrote: | | OP, I'm confused. Everyone posting here seems 2 think it is a no-brainer to get rid of her. She's not doing what you need, so why keep her? So I'm curious, what is making you hesitate? Why do you need validation on this? In other words, why KEEP her? |
its awkward firing someone and often difficult replacing them.
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yo'ma
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Mon, Oct 13 2014, 6:59 am
| eema of 3 wrote: | | Anything that you wouldn't do yourself is degrading work. If you wouldn't sit on your knees scrubbing between tiles with a toothbrush, then you should not be asking your cleaning lady to do it. |
I would sit on my knees and scrub between the tiles with a toothbrush, but I would never ask my cleaning lady to. Lol
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amother
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Mon, Oct 13 2014, 1:07 pm
| amother wrote: | Asking someone to do their job is not treating them as as subhuman. Paying someone to clean my floors is fine. Making them eat off of them would be treating someone as subhuman.
I can make more money doing my professional work. I can bill out at $325 an hour. I pay $10 an hour to my cleaning lady. It makes sense for me to pay her to do the tasks that are worth $10 an hour.
If I could earn $325 scrubbing floors with a toothbrush, I would easily do it because I don't find the work degrading. I find the opportunity cost of me doing it too high because I could be doing other things. | I love when people say they wouldn’t feel degraded doing something like scrubbing floors with a toothbrush. Yes you would.
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zigi
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Mon, Oct 13 2014, 1:09 pm
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why not, if I scrub my tile with a toothbrush, I am not degraded, I also clean my floors on hands and knees, I do tile with a tooth brush.
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amother
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Mon, Oct 13 2014, 1:12 pm
| zigi wrote: | | why not, if I scrub my tile with a toothbrush, I am not degraded, I also clean my floors on hands and knees, I do tile with a tooth brush. | Because you choose to do this in your own home. There’s a difference between that and asking someone else to do it. I wipe my own tuchus when I go to the bathroom. I don’t ask employees to do it.
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debsey
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Mon, Oct 13 2014, 1:13 pm
| amother wrote: | | I love when people say they wouldn’t feel degraded doing something like scrubbing floors with a toothbrush. Yes you would. |
Oddly enough, I wouldn't, if it was my OWN floor, but if someone else asked me to do it to HER floor, I'd feel degraded.
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Clarissa
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Mon, Oct 13 2014, 1:16 pm
| debsey wrote: | | Oddly enough, I wouldn't, if it was my OWN floor, but if someone else asked me to do it to HER floor, I'd feel degraded. | Makes sense to me. I do some things here that are kind of gross. I’d never ask my cleaning woman to do them.
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debsey
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Mon, Oct 13 2014, 1:19 pm
| Clarissa wrote: | | Makes sense to me. I do some things here that are kind of gross. I’d never ask my cleaning woman to do them. |
YEP! I think - Erev Pesach - I feel annoyed, ridiculous, mad at myself for doing things the way my mother did them, overwhelmed - but not degraded (though I do have cleaning rituals that include toothbrushes!)
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Ruchel
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Mon, Oct 13 2014, 1:23 pm
Maybe you simply wouldn't do whatever because it is annoying or tiring, not below you.
Or you were raised with maids and think cleaning is below you, well she accepted the job.
That said I never say how to clean. If it's clean it's clean.
I would never clean on hands and knees or with a toothbrush to me that is off the radar.
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amother
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Mon, Oct 13 2014, 2:01 pm
| amother wrote: | | I love when people say they wouldn’t feel degraded doing something like scrubbing floors with a toothbrush. Yes you would. |
No I wouldn't if I could earn $325 an hour honestly. It is foolish to think the way you do. What about if you were cleaning an ancient floor and someone would pay that money?
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amother
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Mon, Oct 13 2014, 2:06 pm
| amother wrote: | | Because you choose to do this in your own home. There’s a difference between that and asking someone else to do it. I wipe my own tuchus when I go to the bathroom. I don’t ask employees to do it. |
You are still foolish. People get paid to wipe other tochuses. I paid aids to wipe my mom's, I paid nurses and nannies to wipe my kids, and when I was hospitalized a nurse was paid to wipe mine. They are all well paid employees. You insult those that earn honest money doing these things which BTW are not degrading.
When my late husband was dying I wiped his tochus because the nurse was not coming fast enough and it burned him. I can't even understand your thought process. It is better not too earn honest money?
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amother
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Mon, Oct 13 2014, 2:16 pm
| amother wrote: | You are still foolish. People get paid to wipe other tochuses. I paid aids to wipe my mom's, I paid nurses and nannies to wipe my kids, and when I was hospitalized a nurse was paid to wipe mine. They are all well paid employees. You insult those that earn honest money doing these things which BTW are not degrading.
When my late husband was dying I wiped his tochus because the nurse was not coming fast enough and it burned him. I can't even understand your thought process. It is better not too earn honest money? | A home health aide’s job description includes wiping people when they soil themselves. A wife does such a thing for a husband. I’m surprised you don’t see the difference between what someone does because:
1 - It’s part of the job description, and
2 - It’s part of marriage/family
and someone coming to clean your house and having some things they’re comfortable being asked to do and some things they’re not. Glad I’m not working for you.
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debsey
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Mon, Oct 13 2014, 2:17 pm
| amother wrote: | You are still foolish. People get paid to wipe other tochuses. I paid aids to wipe my mom's, I paid nurses and nannies to wipe my kids, and when I was hospitalized a nurse was paid to wipe mine. They are all well paid employees. You insult those that earn honest money doing these things which BTW are not degrading.
When my late husband was dying I wiped his tochus because the nurse was not coming fast enough and it burned him. I can't even understand your thought process. It is better not too earn honest money? |
First of all 
Disgusting and degrading are not the same thing. I find changing my kid's diapers disgusting but not degrading. I love my baby. I don't love the smell of the contents of her diaper!
I'm changing my position - you are right. Still, I think Marina has a point - if you're lording it over the cleaning lady, making it clear you are giving her a job YOU consider degrading (and by extension, she's degraded) by having her do it - that is engaging in an act that can demean another human, which is wrong. If you are having her do a job, paying her an acceptable wage, and treating her with basic respect - that's different.
I ask my cleaning lady to clean toilets, not because it's degrading for me, but because it's not a good use of my time. My time is worth more per hour than hers is, so I pay her to do the things that I don't have time for. Simple transaction.
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Clarissa
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Mon, Oct 13 2014, 2:18 pm
| amother wrote: | You are still foolish. People get paid to wipe other tochuses. I paid aids to wipe my mom's, I paid nurses and nannies to wipe my kids, and when I was hospitalized a nurse was paid to wipe mine. They are all well paid employees. You insult those that earn honest money doing these things which BTW are not degrading.
When my late husband was dying I wiped his tochus because the nurse was not coming fast enough and it burned him. I can't even understand your thought process. It is better not too earn honest money? | Honest money doesn’t include being pushed into doing things you don’t want to do. Does an employer have a right to let you go if you refuse? Sure. But the employer can also understand that all employees draw the line somewhere.
There’s no comparison between a cleaning woman and an aide who takes care of the elderly or sick. Nor is there any comparison between a cleaning woman and a wife.
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sky
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Mon, Oct 13 2014, 2:21 pm
I clean my kitchen floor every year with a toothbrush before Pesach, not because it is necessary, because once a year I like to actually see the original color of the grout and it makes me feel good (even though it only lasts 1 hour).
I have never asked a cleaning lady to do this and do this on my own, even though I make more an hour then I pay my cleaning lady. I feel funny asking her to do this as it is time consuming and yucky. (But there is a feel good feeling to it as you actually see lots of dirty and gunk coming off)
If she doesn't do what you ask I would let her go. If you want to keep her and give it another try I would give her a prioritized list of what you want done and see if she is able to do the tasks in order, even if she doesn't have time to complete them all.
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amother
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Mon, Oct 13 2014, 4:59 pm
| Clarissa wrote: | Honest money doesn’t include being pushed into doing things you don’t want to do. Does an employer have a right to let you go if you refuse? Sure. But the employer can also understand that all employees draw the line somewhere.
There’s no comparison between a cleaning woman and an aide who takes care of the elderly or sick. Nor is there any comparison between a cleaning woman and a wife. |
So the actual task is not degrading. It is the position that is degrading. That is short sighted. Too many people in my community collect benefits while hiring cleaning help. It is a strange world I live in. I find collecting degrading and would rather clean toilets or wipes tochuses.
BTW I cleaned the toilets in my office when we couldn't get a cleaning lady along with my office staff. We took turns. It would be more degrading to me to have clients, my staff and myself use dirty bathrooms.
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Barbara
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Mon, Oct 13 2014, 5:22 pm
| amother wrote: | A home health aide’s job description includes wiping people when they soil themselves. A wife does such a thing for a husband. I’m surprised you don’t see the difference between what someone does because:
1 - It’s part of the job description, and
2 - It’s part of marriage/family
and someone coming to clean your house and having some things they’re comfortable being asked to do and some things they’re not. Glad I’m not working for you. |
Well, let's look at what you said logically.
Cleaning people who have soiled themselves is part of the job description of a home health aid. What if the aid finds this to be demeaning. Would it not be appropriate to let her go, because you viewed that to be an integral part of her job?
Just like changing diapers is part of a nanny's job, albeit not the most pleasant part.
In the same way, the OP thinks that folding laundry is an integral part of her cleaning person's work.
Personally, I find it strange that people are reluctant to ask employees to do things they don't want to do. That's one reason people hire others, to do the work they'd prefer not to do. I recall working on a matter that involved a lot of travel. The joke was always "Miami in January, Boss. Cleveland in January, Barbara. Atlanta mid-week in February, Boss. St. Louis for a working weekend in July, Barbara."
I am perfectly capable of changing the oil in my car, but its dirty and not particularly fun. I hire someone to do it.
Just like I'm perfectly capable of cleaning my apartment, but prefer not to, so I hire someone to help once a week.
Now, there are things that my cleaning person cannot do, as she is an older woman. I'm OK with that; in fact, I hire a cleaning crew to do those things once or twice a year. But if they were really important to me, or needed to be done more often, I'd need to find someone who could do those things.
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