Religious Jewish Housekeeper - What do you think?

Ruchel

Sun, Oct 26 2014, 3:45 pm

It wasn't about certain circumstances. It was the norm. There were enough poor Jewish girls and still they took goyot. Facts are there.

As for a Jew necessarily understanding, respecting and listening... halevai. I looked for a non Jewish nanny when the only Jewish one I found had no mezuza, a non brissed son and asked me if shabbes if Friday night or Saturday morning. On the other hand, my non Jewish teacher knew about shomer negia and tznius. And we have enough stories on Imamother of nice traditional grandparents "not remembering" what is kosher...

Butterfly

Sun, Oct 26 2014, 5:24 pm

amother wrote:

another thing to add- I have had some jewish babysitters in the past and I got kind of annoyed that they thought that because we are "friends" and everyone is "frum" they could unload their problems on me. THat is not what I was paying this woman to do. please come, be pleasant, do your job, make a bit of small talk, and go home.

I don't want to hear about your money issues, husband issues, family issues. its not professional

In other words; If a broken hearted woman who feels the need to confide in you and pour her heart out, you deny her the ability to do so because it's unproffesional to provide a listening ear.
Nice.

MaBelleVie

Sun, Oct 26 2014, 5:39 pm

Ruchel wrote:

I really doubt there was a psak that non jewish was just as acceptable as frum when it comes to issues like kashrut and bishul akum.

This thread is about frum, not just Jewish or traditional.

octopus

Sun, Oct 26 2014, 7:30 pm

amother wrote:

I just don't get the point of a housekeeper whose primary job is not cooking, cleaning, or childcare. you seem to just do odds and ends and I can't imagine that this is full time work.

I have the ability to do all the jobs well enough to cover for the other employees. It isn't so cut & dry that everyone can stick to their one job. That said, no one expects (or even wants) the maids taking the kids to the doctor or the chef cleaning toilets or the nannies keeping up with a problem being worked on by a technician in the furnace room. There is overlap. Sometimes the chef needs a server (me). Only one nanny is on at a time & if two kids have to be in different places at the same time I'll get one if their mother isn't around. Maids need help too. I iron sheets & clothes, order supplies, run errands, shop for everything from groceries to furniture to party poppers, & I do paperwork jobs such as coordinating small construction projects. My job is to keep the house running smoothly. You might be surprised what that takes.

I am totally loving this! It makes me feel so good that my sahm days really shoulda earned me a hefty salary!!

amother

Sun, Oct 26 2014, 7:43 pm

Butterfly wrote:

In other words; If a broken hearted woman who feels the need to confide in you and pour her heart out, you deny her the ability to do so because it's unprofessional to provide a listening ear.
Nice.

yup. exactly.

I am not the OP but I wrote that to tell the OP to include it.

After giving birth I hired a frum woman to be a night nurse for a few months because I was going back to work right away and my husband works long hours.

I was super nice to her. she had no transportation so we picked her up and dropped her off every morning and night. I always paid her for the full amount of time even when she kept us waiting in the car for her for 20 minutes because she wasn't ready on time. even when she took advantage of us driving her to and from her house and tried to treat us like a cab service. I told her to eat anything she wanted from our fridge.

she lasted less than 3 weeks because every night she came it was another sob story. one night it was no money, another night it was her landlord telling her she needed to move and could she pretty please move into our guest room. (it will be great, I'll give you free babysitting and you give me free room and board Rolling Eyes

). another night she wanted to talk about her horrible ex husband, another night it was her kids problems.

That is not what I signed up for. I was postpartum and sleep deprived. I wanted to make a few minutes of small talk, offer her slice of pizza, give her the baby, and go to sleep. good night, wake me in an emergency only. sorry if that seems heartless to you.

amother

Sun, Oct 26 2014, 7:58 pm

Ruchel wrote:

I don't know how today they rule about wetnurses.
But non Jewish maids are obviously still allowed, yes.
Do you know many rebbes pre- war grew up or had Polish, Russian, Spanish, greek, ... maids?

There's a Yiddish expression, "In beis harov, kent di meshoresteh paskenen shailehs" (In the Rabbi's house, the non-Jewish maidservant knows how to rule on matters of Jewish law.) Not literally, of course, but the expression was used to mean that you are what your surroundings are. If you live in the rov's house, you learn jewish law by osmosis. Anyway, non-Jewish maids were very common, not only among rabbonim but among regular baalebatim. My father remembers their meshoresteh teaching him his brochos!

Suffice it to say, though, that the meshoresteh was never the "supervisory housekeeper", never left alone in the kitchen, and never allowed to come close to certain things like meat, wine, and grape juice.

Sherri

Sun, Oct 26 2014, 9:10 pm

amother wrote:

It sounds as if you want a wife. I am a professional housekeeper & I earn $50/hr. My employers have a chef to fix their meals. They have two nannies to care for the children. I occasionally make soup or other food when I have time. Food preparation takes a long time. Ask a professional chef. I occasionally sit with the kids, drive them places & pick them up. My employer knows not to expect ironed laundry or clean counter tops if I'm with the kids. As for Pesach cleaning . . . hire a maid.

What are your responsibilities, and how many hours a week do you work?

amother

Sun, Oct 26 2014, 10:22 pm

Hi Op,
You may be a professional at what you do, but im a professional in writing resumes, help wanted ads and ads like yours. The right way of expressing what youre looking for would be; writing basics in short, you fill in the blanks.
--- family seeking to hire a frum housekeeper for light ---- and ---.
Responsibilities include minor cooking and cleaning. occasional laundry, errands, organizing and -------.
We are looking for someone to do ----- as well as ------......
The individual will also be responsible for pesach cleaning and blablabla.
Organization and flexibility a must. Gourmet cooking and experience a plus.

Or something similar... Just omit the you. Make ot more into a we are looking for someone to do xyz rather than you will do this and that.

Butterfly

Sun, Oct 26 2014, 10:55 pm

amother wrote:

Amother, after reading you post above I can understand where you come from and why you suggested that the OP include what you wrote in your previous post.

You endured some very difficult experiences with the night nurse you hired during your PP period.

Apparently you were burdened with a nonefficient and quite unstable night nurse. The unusual!

Honestly, if it were me in your shoes, this nurse wouldn't have lasted that long in my home.
My guess is you kept her because there was no other choice at the time. No wonder you're still spewing...

But realistically speaking if the OP or anyone else for the matter would include such a message in their advertisement it would surely give off a very negative impression. JMVHO.

Last edited by Butterfly on Sun, Oct 26 2014, 10:58 pm; edited 1 time in total

Rubber Ducky

Mon, Oct 27 2014, 8:37 am

amother wrote:

I thought the OP sounded DE-fensive rather than OF-fensive, Following amother's template would be an excellent way to take the emotions out of the ad.

If I were wealthy, I'd definitely want anybody who does cooking to be frum. It's just too easy to get into real bishul akum problems. And if I needed the money and the job paid well (OP would do well to add some salary guidelines), what's demeaning about being a head housekeeper? It's honest work.

Fox

Mon, Oct 27 2014, 10:29 am

Sometimes an entire thread just makes me shake my head and say, "Huh?" This is one of them.

I don't understand how anyone managed to think that the original post was the actual text of an ad the OP planned to run. And if that impression was somehow mistakenly given, the OP has clarified repeatedly that she was only trying to explain her mindset -- not compose an ad.

Plus, how offensive can a "mindset" be when it refers constantly to unpleasant tasks that will not be expected of the employee?

Is the job realistic? I'd say, "Absolutely," with a few caveats.

My first thought is that this job is likely to appeal more to a young, single woman or perhaps newly-married woman than to a married/divorced woman with her own children. In fact, two of my daughters have actually had jobs of this nature that developed out of more routine babysitting jobs, and one of their newly-married friends in another city works as a "house manager" similar to what the OP describes.

While it is difficult for a woman with extensive responsibilities of her own to provide the flexibility such jobs require, a young-but-responsible woman -- even someone attending college, for example -- might find the job enjoyable and interesting.

My second thought is that this is going to be a very tough job to fill, and it has nothing to do with whether the job is considered degrading or whether the salary is sufficient. The biggest problem with this type of job is that it is not unlike finding a good therapist: you have to find someone who "gets" you, and that ability far outweighs other considerations.

Years ago, when I was in a more demanding phase of my work (and my kids were younger), I had a Jewish woman who was somewhat observant and spoke approximately two words of English. She was my domestic soul-mate. She intuitively understood what needed (to my mind) to be organized and what could stay messy. When I couldn't find something, I simply thought, "Where would I have put that?" and there is was! If she noticed we were running low on garbage bags, she simply picked some up and gave me the receipt, and after a while, I gave her a pre-paid card to do such shopping. The day she retired counts as one of the traumas of my life.

My point in this long-winded tale is that my housekeeper was far from perfect "on paper." She didn't speak English; her standards of observance were not ours; and she didn't drive or have a car. But like any shidduch, things that I thought were important went right out the window because of the "chemistry."

So I would urge the OP to definitely pursue hiring such an individual, but remember that your satisfaction will have more to do with the overall effect rather than competence at a specific task. This is a job, IMHO, that should be a "promote from within" opportunity. Hire a likely candidate for a somewhat less-demanding job and allow her the opportunity to show initiative. If she does so in a way that resonates with you., you will have found your house manager.