Promoting independence through natural consequences

chani8

Thu, Oct 30 2014, 10:23 am

Natural consequences are great. However, you need to first teach and explain and give tools for her to be successful on her own. A check list is helpful. Preparing the night before. Let her decide how she's going to do, by talking it through with her ahead of time.

I did this with my kids and my life changed for the good from thereafter. I will warn you that she will probably fail more than once. That's how she'll learn. And you have to be supportive and encouraging. You cannot punish about it, even if she misses a day, runs for the bus half dressed, or comes home starving, etc. And try not to offer unsolicited advice because that undermines her.

Ooops. I just glanced back up at your OP to check your DDs age and my mouth dropped open. You are expecting this from a 6 year old??? She's still a baby!! Everything that can be prepared the night before, should be done, including stuffing most of her lunch in her backpack. Clothes can be picked out the night before. And you should be reading off a checklist, not her. WADR.

sky

Thu, Oct 30 2014, 10:58 am

I've found a checklist with pictures to work wonderful for my kids. A prize at the end of the week helps.

Typically it includes: Modeh ani, negel vasser, get dressed, shoes (has to be a different step or it isn't done), Make bed, pjs in hamper, breakfast, bag packed, bus on time.

They also know sometimes if they are ready 1/2 hour early they may get to do something fun (like run out to the supermarket [with DH], go biking, rake leaves, etc) so it is an extra incentive even though it may not always happen.

I found the list made me a less naggy mother. I just had to work on keeping my mouth shut and not nudging them along. It was work on my part.

My consequnence (not so natural) for missing the bus: when we started the charts (we don't use them so much anymore) I explained to my kids that if we miss the bus it must mean that we are tired or we would have gotten ready on time, so if you miss the bus you must go to sleep 20 minutes earlier.

I know one mother makes her kids call an aunt to take her to school, she knows the aunt is available, but I don't like that because I feel it puts the responsibility on the aunt.

Hashem_Yaazor

Thu, Oct 30 2014, 11:40 am

Further thoughts on this...

One of my children in particular is very "spacey" and takes his merry old time doing things (and then blames everyone else that he didn't have time to do XYZ)...he distracts himself internally with all the things running in his head and it doesn't help to have him in a separate room. He now knows basic time management skills (e.g. he'll say "I only have 10 minutes, I have to hurry") but can't seem to actually put it in action many times. However, he has no other signs of AD(H)D at all....he's always been like this, but the best way I could find to help him cope with this characteristic WAs to have a self-check for him...e.g. he'd put on a timer for some random number he set and try to beat it. This progressed to him coming up with other ideas. One time he came up with a method to see if he could beat the motorized k'nex roller coaster he built: if he got dressed before it went 17 times, he won...teaching coping strategies so they can come up with their own may seem like a crutch, but if they're never going to change from this inherent part of their personality, I feel it's a life skill.

As you can see, my main issue is having them get up and dressed and out the door in time, with some breakfast to boot.
Their school bags and lunch bags are prepared the night before. There is no reason not to, and it's just asking for trouble otherwise. This is part of their bedtime routine: pack away homework, pack the lunch bags, change, brush teeth...
I pick out the clothing the night before -- it's not worth it for me to have yet another step for them in the process. I pick it out even for my 9 year old. It takes me 2 minutes to do everyone and put the clothing on the bed. Asking them to do it in the morning is just asking for trouble. On Shabbos and Sunday (for those who don't have school), they can pick out, ask me for help, or ask me to pick out...this way they get the skills necessary to figure out what needs to be picked out every morning, how to match things, etc

Fox

Thu, Oct 30 2014, 12:01 pm

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

he's always been like this, but the best way I could find to help him cope with this characteristic WAs to have a self-check for him...e.g. he'd put on a timer for some random number he set and try to beat it. This progressed to him coming up with other ideas. One time he came up with a method to see if he could beat the motorized k'nex roller coaster he built: if he got dressed before it went 17 times, he won...teaching coping strategies so they can come up with their own may seem like a crutch, but if they're never going to change from this inherent part of their personality, I feel it's a life skill.

This is just brilliant! I think I'll try it with my DH -- he's far more challenging than any of my kids ever were when it comes to this stuff!

marina

Thu, Oct 30 2014, 12:39 pm

redroses wrote:

Ok, and when she misses the bus, then what? Either she stays home and misses a day, or I have to take her and get to work late

She misses the bus and you stay home (or get a babysitter) and she does nothing fun- no computers, no tv, nothing fun. Only sit and read a book or color. But I do think 6 yr is a little young for that harsh of a punishment. Maybe I'd do it at 8.

Last edited by marina on Thu, Oct 30 2014, 12:44 pm; edited 1 time in total

marina

Thu, Oct 30 2014, 12:43 pm

Quote:

2. Taking away time due to kid being slow/late -- if you have time with them in the evening/alone time, which I do recommend every parent having with every kid at least in the elementary school age, you can take away some of that time because they are causing you to spend extra time with them in the morning. Natural consequence. They need you to take them to school or go to work late or spend more time in the morning with them coaching them through the things they should be capable of doing on their own? Well, they got 5 out of their 10 minutes right then...

I don't know. I don't think I'd like to take away mommy time as a punishment. That's counterproductive for me.

MaBelleVie

Thu, Oct 30 2014, 12:43 pm

marina wrote:

She misses the bus and you stay home (or get a babysitter) and she does nothing fun- no computers, no tv, nothing fun. Only sit and read a book or color.

That's a bit much for a six year old. I honestly don't think that this consequence would even make her capable of perfect performance at this stage. Plus this is a horrible punishment for Mom...

marina

Thu, Oct 30 2014, 12:45 pm

MaBelleVie wrote:

That's a bit much for a six year old. I honestly don't think that this consequence would even make her capable of perfect performance at this stage. Plus this is a horrible punishment for Mom...

yes, I thought about it and changed it to 8, look above.

But as for punishments for mom- that's the only ones that work- the ones that punish the mom more than anyone else Smile

proudmother1

Thu, Oct 30 2014, 12:53 pm

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

BTW, here are 2 ideas I heard from Kirk Martin, as incorporated into my lifestyle.

2. Taking away time due to kid being slow/late -- if you have time with them in the evening/alone time, which I do recommend every parent having with every kid at least in the elementary school age, you can take away some of that time because they are causing you to spend extra time with them in the morning. Natural consequence. They need you to take them to school or go to work late or spend more time in the morning with them coaching them through the things they should be capable of doing on their own? Well, they got 5 out of their 10 minutes right then...

If you said to take away play time, I would still disagree, but at least understand.

But to take away half of her mommy time as a punishment is like taking away half of her dinner.

I don't view this entire concept through the prism of punishment/reward.

Rather, teach the child to recognize cause and effect. If you take away the effect, you stole that learning opportunity from the child.

Of course, it has to be within reason. But I think that a child missing the bus is well within reason.

self-actualization

Thu, Oct 30 2014, 1:07 pm

For the past two years, my son would sometimes forget to bring home his homework. Then I would text a mom in the class, get a picture of the homework, and rewrite it!! B"H our family grew, and I am now very busy when I get home. This year, my son started out and forgot his homework. So I said, "This year I am too busy to text and re-copy the hw sheet. You will need to do it during recess; I'll write a note to your teacher." Well, guess what. He never forgot his homework since then.

MaBelleVie

Thu, Oct 30 2014, 1:07 pm

proudmother1 wrote:

A child can be far from perfect and make his bus most of the time. If that were the case, this discussion would not exist.

So let's say the child complies 90% of the time. This means that once every two weeks op will be staying home with the child or whatever else she chooses as a natural consequence. 90% is a very high success rate, buy once every two weeks is way too frequent to be staying home.

Hashem_Yaazor

Thu, Oct 30 2014, 1:07 pm

proudmother1 wrote:

No, this is not a punishment -- it's a natural consequence.
A child has 10 minutes (let's say) of undivided mommy attention a day.
He usually gets it in one chunk at night.
But if he is asking you to stay with him to ensure he is completing what is within his abilities to do (a 6 yo getting dressed does not need Mommy there, a 3 yo likely does), then he is redistributing those 10 minutes to be 5 minutes in the morning and 5 minutes at night. Or if he is asking you to drive him to school because he missed the bus. He gets those 5 minutes in the car with Mommy. But he'll feel like it's less in the evening, and realize perhaps he didn't make a good decision procrastinating or what not in the morning. It's cause and effect as well: have Mommy now, have less Mommy later.

It's like a kid who comes and sneaks part of supper before it's supper time. Yes, he'll have half his supper with the family, if he ate the first hamburger as a snack earlier.

Last edited by Hashem_Yaazor on Thu, Oct 30 2014, 1:08 pm; edited 1 time in total

proudmother1

Thu, Oct 30 2014, 1:08 pm

self-actualization wrote:

THIS

proudmother1

Thu, Oct 30 2014, 1:11 pm

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

Way too complicated for a child to understand.

Mommy time is a necessity. Part of the problem is that a lot of children don't get enough.

If anything, I would increase mommy time, and use it try and have a relaxed conversation with my child, and see if there is anything that is holding him back from performing to my expectations.