Mikvah for spiritual reason

DrMom

Sun, Nov 02 2014, 7:10 am

cookiejar wrote:

Am I the only one who thinks it takes away from the mitzvah-use of it for ppl to use it whenever they get that spiritual feeling??

A long as the mitzvah is being fulfilled properly, I don't see what the problem is.

Granted, I don't get any spiritual lift out of using the mikvah, so for me it would be the same (of course, I probably wouldn't use it more often than necessary anyway).

I don't see why it should matter if someone wants to use the mikvah often. It doesn't seem to bother men who dunk every morning.

Frumdoc

Sun, Nov 02 2014, 7:14 am

cookiejar wrote:

Am I the only one who thinks it takes away from the mitzvah-use of it for ppl to use it whenever they get that spiritual feeling??

ITA, it is not orthodoxy to take a mitzvah and then re use it for another meaning, isn't that what Reform do? Take what feels good and meaningful within judaism and use it for whatever purpose suits their current spiritual needs? Meanwhile losing the original purpose and halacha surrounding the mitzvah in the first place?

I get a lot of meaning and spiritual uplifting from lighting shabbos candles, but I don't do it every day just for the feeling, I do it for the mitzvah.

Men go to the mikvah because of zex/ risk of overnight ZL, officially. And it is a minhag/ chumra, not a mitzvah like proper TH dipping, and not done by the majority of communities.

We have enough segulah chasing/ magical thinking going on in orthodox judaism to not add more irrationality to the mix.

marina

Sun, Nov 02 2014, 8:52 am

cookiejar wrote:

I really think that using toivelling in a mikvah to commemorate something like a graduation or birthday(!) is demeaning to the mitzvah that Hashem gave us. Follow the rules, and use it as intended - I wonder in an ironic kind of way if the ppl who feel so connected that they want to use it to celebrate their birthdays actually observe TH laws to the letter of the law... (sure I'm opening a can of worms here Smile

) I just can't find any kind of distortion or misuse of a mitzvah as totally GENUINE-sounding, for some reason...

But men toivel to celeberate their Jewish birthdays, in some sects. Your birthday is considered a very spiritual day in those groups.

DrMom

Sun, Nov 02 2014, 9:02 am

Frumdoc wrote:

Yes but in the case of Reform, the rituals are repurposed but the mitzvot are often ignored.
In this case I assume the people are still following TH and using the mikvah accordingly.

Actually, I don't see how extra mikvah-dipping is any different from so many minhagim which have developed over the centuries.

mille

Sun, Nov 02 2014, 9:18 am

I'm kind of baffled at the comments... Who cares? I really don't understand why anyone else cares if some people find meaning in going to the mikvah to mark a certain life cycle event or whatever. If you don't buy into it, don't do it. But it does not affect you whatsoever.

I think plenty of segulahs are pretty stupid, especially ones that are based on practices of other religions (like schlissel challah), but hey, you wanna bake your challah into the shape of a key, go nuts. What do I care? No one is knocking on my door trying to convince me to shape my challah that way, and no one will be knocking on your door insisting you need to go to the mikvah to mark being cancer-free.

This goes along with Dr Mom's point, too. You can't police WHY people are at the mikvah. So who cares.

mo5

Mon, Nov 03 2014, 4:23 pm

marina wrote:

Chabad men toivel for any special occassion, a chassidishe holiday, a birthday, a yartzeit, etc.

Pink fridge, yes but it is a tuma/tahara reason even then.
There's tevilas ezra- where men go to Mikva after any form of hotzas zera (doesn't translate well to English, taking out seed) based on the fact that even sleeping together with ones wife makes a man tamei (see end of parshas metzora same place where it talks about nida). Added on to tevilas ezra is men who go everyday or at least before Shabbos and yomtov and there it is also connected to tuma/tahara. It's sort of like a 'just-in-case' tevila. It's not to celebrate their birthday, it's to attain extra tahara for a special occasion. (Like all the people who go to Mikva erev Yom Kippur)

Ema of 5

Mon, Nov 03 2014, 4:54 pm

I don't see an issue at all. As far as I know men do it for spiritual reasons, and it is NOT a halachic mandate. (Correct me if I'm wrong)
Nervous about MORE people seeing you and taking away your privacy? I think this is actually better. Right now you KNOW why someone is at the Mikva. If women start using it for other, spiritual purposes, there will e even MORE privacy because there will no longer be a reason to assume you know why someone's there.
This wouldn't work for me as I hate going to the Mikva in general and the less time I have to spend there the better, but I see nothing wrong with the concept.

etky

Mon, Nov 03 2014, 5:00 pm

mo5 wrote:

Yes, but the motivation is still spiritual since the only tuma that has any real halachic ramification in our day and age that requires mikva is tumat nida for women (and for anyone who wants to go up to har habayit according to some poskim).

Miri7

Mon, Nov 03 2014, 5:37 pm

I was a mikvah lady at a community mikvah for a few years. The frum community there was (very) small, but the mikvah was maintained by an orthodox rabbi and was used by various people from the community for a variety of purposes other than TH. The community was so small that it was appointment-only, with no regular hours for women.

I wasn't comfortable being mikvah lady for the "non-traditional" users because those women wanted to make brachot upon immersing, which I felt was inappropriate. Because I wasn't comfortable acting as mikvah lady for the "non-traditional" users, I just told the mikvah manager that I would only be mikvah lady for women for TH purposes. (I was also there when friends converted their adopted infant).

What I can say is that, over time, I saw a number of young women who were somewhat observant begin keeping TH. These are women who belong to conservative shuls, are active members, celebrate but don't keep shabbat. As they got married, I began to see them regularly for their monthly TH visits. I attribute this to the outreach that the mikvah did, advertising its use for all of these non-traditional purposes. People in the community were talking about the mikvah, grandmothers who had never used it for TH were coming to mark the end of cancer, or the end of aveliut, or whatever, and then told their granddaughters what a great place it was. I think the mikvah generated a lot of good "press" and PR and the result is that more women came to give it a try and then kept coming. Which is fantastic.

I also think that the kallot liked how the mikvah did a special thing for them to make it really special and spa-like, with nice toiletries, flower petals around the mikvah floor, candlelight, etc. Also mothers, sisters were invited to come (as is customary in some traditional communities) to greet and celebrate with the kallah. This was a nice, welcoming introduction to the mikvah.

In addition, I knew some women who didn't keep TH, but decided to visit the mikvah before resuming relations after a miscarriage, or during difficulty conceiving.

So, overall, while I wasn't comfortable with attending personally to these non-traditional immersions because of the brachot issue, I saw firsthand how getting more women into the mikvah created a positive ripple effect of getting more women to take on this mitzvah.