This American Life episode about Hasidic takeover of Ramapo

Pita

Sun, Nov 02 2014, 1:07 am

http://www.thisamericanlife.or.....ority

Very scary.

Dina_B613

Sun, Nov 02 2014, 1:37 am

http://tabletmag.com/jewish-ne.....hools
by Batya Ungar-Sargon

Basically, it's not all the fault of frum people. This one sentence basically sums it up: "There’s no question that the public-school children of East Ramapo aren’t getting the education they deserve, but their Jewish neighbors don’t deserve what they’re getting, either—all the blame." Personally, I was totally ready to blame frum people before listening to an interview with her, Batya Ungar-Sargon, on Tablet Magazine's podcast.

"The media have generally adopted the public-school community’s criticisms of the Orthodox community and school board. Bloomberg News quoted accusations that the board was “siphoning public funds for private schools,” and the New York Times accused “[a]n Orthodox-dominated board” of ensuring “that the community’s geometric expansion would be accompanied by copious tax dollars.” The Journal News, a local paper, has been particularly critical of the school board. To the casual observer, East Ramapo looks a lot like a case of a white ethnic voting bloc shrewdly using its electoral clout, and some slick lawyering, to disempower poor people of color.

But what if the media got it wrong?

Some of the complaints are valid. One appraiser radically undervalued a public-school property that was being sold to a yeshiva (and he has been charged with a felony). A number of religious texts (80, out of tens of thousands) were found to have been paid for by the district. But a closer look at the situation in East Ramapo, based on visits and interviews conducted this past spring and summer, as well as on inspections of the local budgets and tax rolls, suggests that where budgetary problems exist, they exist across the county, not just in East Ramapo, and are largely the result of state laws, not any machinations on the part of cynical Jews.

East Ramapo’s towns, like Spring Valley and Monsey, are more densely populated than the surrounding villages—which the Times has called “Cheever-esque”—as well as younger and poorer. The discrepancy stems in part from higher birth rates among immigrants and Orthodox Jews. But part of it stems from the way some towns responded to the sudden influx of Orthodox Jews into their neighborhoods. In 1997, the Times reported that “the clash between cultures has been so intense that entire neighborhoods have seceded from Ramapo and formed their own villages.” Non-Jews and more secular Jews formed villages “to preserve the sparse Better Homes and Gardens ambiance that attracted them to Rockland County.”

Resources are tight in the school district, 78 percent of whose students qualify for free and reduced lunches. The district has two main funding sources—property taxes and state aid. Both have taken a hit in recent years. According to the superintendent, state budget cuts started to hit in 2009—the same year as the programming cuts—eventually adding up to $45 million over five years and devastating the district’s pockets. In 2011, Albany imposed a tax cap that said districts could raise property taxes by no more than 2 percent in any year.

[b]But funding cuts are not the only reason East Ramapo is facing financial difficulty. State and federal laws mandate that a district must provide certain services to every student, even those in private school. These services include transportation, textbooks, and, when needed, special education. The state reimburses the district for these services, but it also expects the district to pick up some of the burden, determined by a complicated funding formula.[/b] This formula has determined that East Ramapo will only be reimbursed 70 percent for transportation costs, which in another district might not be such a heavy burden. But because of its huge religious population, East Ramapo has 22,000 private-school students whom it must, by state law, transport to school, at a total cost of $33 million, of which the district’s share is $10 million. Another major private-school burden is special education (which we’ll get to in a moment). In total, the private-school community costs the district a quarter of its $200 million budget.

But even a modest estimate of the property taxes paid by Orthodox Jews is above the $50 million the private-school community costs the district, which includes some parochial school children besides Orthodox Jews. Their presence in town is surely a net gain for the school coffers. Nevertheless, the rhetoric that abounds in East Ramapo is that the Orthodox Jews are stealing money from the public schools for their special-needs children. There’s no question that the public-school children of East Ramapo aren’t getting the education they deserve, but their Jewish neighbors don’t deserve what they’re getting, either—all the blame."

DrMom

Sun, Nov 02 2014, 4:44 am

I knew a little about this situation, but not all these details.

From what little I know it sounds like a **massive** chilul HaShem.

imasinger

Sun, Nov 02 2014, 4:53 am

I think it was 2 weeks ago that the New York Times did a piece on Lakewood, meshullachim, and generosity in tzedaka that led to a mass of hateful online responses.

America may be safer than Europe, but I worry.

Pita

Sun, Nov 02 2014, 6:22 am

Thank you for responding. I had no context for this, but it sounds awful. Of course one wants to get one's fair share, but abuse of power is very different. Anyone who has the hour to listen (no video, just audio, you can fold laundry or exercise or do whatever you do when listening to the radio) may want to. Please tell me if you have any information.

33055

Sun, Nov 02 2014, 6:59 am

Spring Valley has the largest population of illegal immigrants in the state. That population creates the overburdening of the school system. They need a disproportionate amount of special services such as ESL.

They also break zoning laws by living multiple families in homes built for single families. The overcrowding creates burdens on the school system.

The school and other property taxes coming from that area, do not support the population.
With the government's policies towards those entering this country illegally showing no sign of reversing, this population is only going to increase.

Pita

Sun, Nov 02 2014, 7:03 am

Jews are the last people to deny those wishing to leave danger entrance.

33055

Sun, Nov 02 2014, 7:11 am

Pita wrote:

Jews are the last people to deny those wishing to leave danger entrance.

Who says that population is in danger? The burden for the federal immigration policy should not fall on one district in the state thereby vilifying the legal citizens who are hard pressed to pay for the educating of illegal immigrants.

BTW the frum private students get less services and extra curricula activities than the public schools. The public students are not treated as second class. They are still exposed to a border and better secular education than the private schools provide.

anon for this

Sun, Nov 02 2014, 7:14 am

Squishy wrote:

I've seen this point raised by posters before. What about zoning laws? Overcrowding poses dangers to anyone living in the home, especially in the event of a fire. Perhaps people concerned about rising costs can lobby for new laws, or for existing laws to be enforced.

33055

Sun, Nov 02 2014, 8:09 am

anon for this wrote:

No one is enforcing the existing laws because it is a political hot potato. If the Jewish politicians enforce the law, the activists scream about how the Hasidim are making an apartheid system.

Look at what a fuss the activists made about the Bais Rochel books. I pointed out that it was less than a third of a percent of the entire textbook budget. I honestly don't see why they can't buy a small amount of books in Yiddish because the public schools buy a large amount of books in Spanish for their population. Perhaps Bais Rochel should have bought the books as ESL books.

There is a double standard here and a vilification that is unjustified in this instance.

anon for this

Sun, Nov 02 2014, 8:30 am

Squishy wrote:

I don't think the two issues are related. I don't know a lot about this issue and I'm not certain what you mean by the Bais Rochel books--were federal/ state funds used to buy Yiddish books in violation of the law? If the amounts involved are small, it's ridiculous to point to this as the source of the district's financial woes. But still laws were broken and that's wrong. If Bais Rochel feels that they should be allowed to buy the books using district money because they're used to teach ESL to native Yiddish-speakers perhaps they should argue for that.

But your argument about the Jewish politicians being afraid to enforce the law doesn't make much sense to me. In this case, the law is clearly on their side. And their failure to enforce the law, if they have the enforcement power to do so, is risking people's lives. This is especially true as winter approaches, and the danger increases of fires due to unsafe heating practices.

In general, I haven't gotten the impression that the Jewish politicians and activists are that scared of inflaming public sentiment. If they were, why would Jewish activists have moved to govern the school district in the first place?

Also, I would guess that there are at least some non-Jewish politicians and activists who are concerned about overcrowding, whether because of the costs to the public infrastructure or because of the dangers to the residents living in overcrowded conditions. Perhaps an alliance could be formed to solve this issue.

marina

Sun, Nov 02 2014, 8:47 am

I don't understand how this argument differentiates this district from all others with many private school kids. In our community we also have many frum kids that we need to transport and we also have some children that end up needing special ed services in private schools.... and so what? Our public schools don't look like Ramapo's.

And what about the time difference? Before this board was voted in, the district was in very good shape. Now it is tanking. That's totally unrelated?

And finally, if you saw the videos of the board meeting- with the rude and out of line board members and attorneys- cursing at the crying mother, laughing at her, fighting in the parking lot- it doesn't look like the board is doing a lot of good.

33055

Sun, Nov 02 2014, 8:52 am

anon for this wrote:

The Jewish politicians serve on the school board to control the costs. They are not activists as they are not looking for social change but fiscal responsibility.

Getting rid of the illegal aliens by enforcing zoning would have the effect of reducing costs for education but would increase costs of enforcement.

The inspectors need to have information as to who is actually living in overcrowded conditions. Someone must inform. They can't just knock at the door and demand inspections. Perhaps they can offer rewards but that is expensive. Who is going to say that the people rooming together are not family when they claim they are? They have no papers.

Also, if they clear out one house, they will just go elsewhere nearby. They too want to stay near their friends, family and country men. The only solution would be to detain them for breaking the law in the first place. Detaining illegals costs more than 2 billion a year.

They are here to stay. The federal government should pay to educate them not the local government.

nylon

Sun, Nov 02 2014, 9:17 am

Going after illegal occupancy and subdivided residences is a political hot potato no one wants to touch unless they can be sure their constituency won't get hit by the splatter. Many NYC suburbs have problems with this issue, and they do not touch it till it hits crisis level if that. There are people benefiting from the labor the undocumented immigrants provide, there are people who have illegal basement apartments themselves.

Clarissa

Sun, Nov 02 2014, 9:26 am

Nobody should be allowed to serve on any school board unless they have at least one child in that school system. Then they can work on “fiscal responsibility” while still being personally interested in the local children getting a decent education and will be less likely to decimate the schools.

33055

Sun, Nov 02 2014, 9:30 am

nylon wrote:

ITA however most of these residences in Spring Valley are not subdivided. They live and share entrances, bedrooms, bathrooms and kitchens making it harder to catch them.

The illegal apartments ironically are for frum yidden.

DrMom

Sun, Nov 02 2014, 9:31 am

Clarissa wrote:

I understand your point, but I don't understand how any taxpayer should be barred from sitting on the school board. Everyone's property taxes are used to fund the education budget, not just those who send to the public schools.

Perhaps there should be a minimum number of representatives with children in public schools.

33055

Sun, Nov 02 2014, 9:32 am

Clarissa wrote:

That's discriminatory. What about someone infertile with a sincere desire to serve?

Clarissa

Sun, Nov 02 2014, 9:35 am

Squishy wrote:

That's discriminatory. What about someone infertile with a sincere desire to serve?

Same deal. I don’t think it’s discriminatory. You see what happens if those without children in the system decide to cut costs so they can save money while sending their children to private school. Those with children in public schools are people who will care about good decisions which won’t ruin their children’s schools.

I wouldn’t have wanted to serve on a school board without having children. If others want to do it, it’s not for the right reasons.

People who want to serve the community can find many ways to do so. And I’ll bet the people who are on the school board do, in fact, have children. In private schools, of course.

Clarissa

Sun, Nov 02 2014, 9:38 am

I also think those who make decisions about the military should be people who’ve served in the armed forces. You can’t know the reality and risks without having been involved.

Decimating the school system does nothing for the local people. My father, even though his children were grown, railed against the local school board being frum Jews without kids in the local schools. He didn’t want to see his local schools ruined because of budget cuts voted on by locals who didn’t have kids in the schools. It doesn’t help the area at all to have more dropouts or children who are getting lousy educations in awful conditions.