Don't Judge Hasidic Seat-Switchers by Tova Ross

PinkFridge

Tue, Nov 04 2014, 7:42 pm

Hasidic Seat-Switchers would make an excellent name for a rock band. (Guess where I'm going next.)
And Ms. Ross, reasonable point. May I add that it's been a long time since I've been patronized so elegantly.

Maya

Tue, Nov 04 2014, 7:52 pm

I'll answer that by inventing my own important-sounding saying:

"Today's fanaticism is tomorrow's normalcy."

She's absolutely wrong. These people get crazier by the day because we allow them to, and don't put up too much of a fight.

chani8

Wed, Nov 05 2014, 4:11 am

She sounds like she doesn't know what she's talking about. She's never witnessed their behavior firsthand, that's for sure. She's never walked through their neighborhood worried about her safety. She's never been bullied by them. Never saw their egg throwing, mob behavior. They are extremists and bullies. While in contrast, having witnessed the WOW firsthand, with their grannies in kippot and other harmlessness, to compare the two groups or find some commonality between them is just ridiculous.

amother

Wed, Nov 05 2014, 5:44 am

The last two comments are total nonsense. There are plenty of normal chareidi men who don't want to sit next to women. My husband included. He's a cool, chassidishe guy but sitting next to a woman is very uncomfortable for him. Now, like the majority of chareidi travelers, he wouldn't ask a woman to change her seat for him, but he would ask a flight attendant if there was a seat available next to a man.

He has never thrown a stone at anyone, never spit at anyone, never called any woman names, never thrown eggs, acid or molotov cocktails or anything of the sort.

Asking for a seat change is not fanaticism.

amother

Wed, Nov 05 2014, 6:11 am

chani8 -
I am very often impressed by your knowledge and insight
but this time I think you are a bit off.
my husband is litvish, if you want call us charedi
will politely greet my friends, but will try not to call them by their first names.
He defenitly does not throw pots and pans when I bring my otd students home. dressed in skirts skimpier than a bathing suit mind you.
but he would probably ask for a switch if he were in such a circumstance.
He is not the only one. many of his friends would do that to.
no stones, no bleach,
just a polite "can you please find me a different seat." or just a attempt on his own to perhaps find a sem girl stuck between two guys who would not mind switching.

abound

Wed, Nov 05 2014, 6:55 am

amother wrote:

THIS!
We are chassidish. I have plenty of not religious guests and family and my husband talks to them and treats them respectfully. My friend who is totally off the derech has an open invitation to my home (in shorts and all). If my husband was in a situation on an airplane, he would definitely request a change of seat. He always tries to get an aisle seat so that if he needs to switch people would be happy to switch with him.

PinkFridge

Wed, Nov 05 2014, 7:08 am

DrMom, I don't think anyone would disagree with you.

I'm trying to remember the story, of the chareidi guy who was sitting next to two non-chareidi/dati women. He won them over with his introduction. He told them that he might fall asleep and since he was sitting in the aisle seat they shouldn't hesitate to wake him up as needed.
And not all planes are created equal. A few years ago I noticed two rabbanim on my flight. One was seated next to me, another a few rows up between two women. This was a domestic flight and downsized plane. So I asked the stewardess if it was ok if I switched seats with the latter rav. Besides being more comfortable they had each others' company. Was I part of the problem? ;-)

Frumdoc

Wed, Nov 05 2014, 7:31 am

I don't have a problem with single people moving around the seating to suit themselves.

I do have a problem with being pressured to split up with my husband to facilitate it, and having to sit next to a stranger. And will refuse.

PinkFridge

Wed, Nov 05 2014, 8:20 am

chani8 wrote:

If you are on imamother, your DH is not from the same crowd as the guys who made the seat switching scene.

I don't make those kinds of assumptions anymore. Imamother is a pretty big tent Tongue Out

Clarissa

Wed, Nov 05 2014, 8:27 am

I thought this article was awful. I really hate when people write stuff that enables really bad behavior and then use a cute “I hope I don’t lose my liberal/feminist cred, but...” We all know that those who ask for seat changes don’t handle “I’d rather not” as an acceptable answer. We all know that the woman is pressured into making a move, even if they have to move to an uncomfortable location they didn’t request, as my elderly mother was pressured to do.

This isn’t about manners. This is about enabling people who need to accept that, unless you charter your own flight, you’re not able to specify the seating chart.

Then again, I’ve read other stuff she’s written and my response is “meh” every time.

Clarissa

Wed, Nov 05 2014, 8:28 am

amother wrote:

You lose your credibility when you say comments are total nonsense if they post under their Imamother names and you post anonymously.

Last edited by Clarissa on Wed, Nov 05 2014, 8:30 am; edited 1 time in total

heidi

Wed, Nov 05 2014, 9:32 am

I have been told, not asked, to move to the back of a bus in Yerushalayim. I was then told by the charedi man sitting in front of me not to dare move and not to worry about the crazy people on the bus.

amother

Wed, Nov 05 2014, 9:42 am

Clarissa wrote:

You lose your credibility when you say comments are total nonsense if they post under their Imamother names and you post anonymously.

No I don't. Nonsense is nonsense, no matter who says it and no matter who calls it. As for credibility, I don't need it. Everyone can judge for herself whether the comments are nonsense.

And this is not true:

Quote:

We all know that those who ask for seat changes don’t handle “I’d rather not” as an acceptable answer. We all know that the woman is pressured into making a move, even if they have to move to an uncomfortable location they didn’t request, as my elderly mother was pressured to do.

I for one don't know that. I have refused a seat change more than once and no one tried pressuring me. I don't say it has never happened, but your sweeping generalization is just wrong. Even though I'm amother.

imasoftov

Wed, Nov 05 2014, 9:42 am

heidi wrote:

I probably would not really do this to avoid having it damaged, but I would like to use my smartphone like a cross in a vampire story.

[image of someone holding a cross removed]

Ruchel

Wed, Nov 05 2014, 9:42 am

Things ebb and flow, but yes, many chumros of yesteryear are unfortunately "a must" now.

I don't mind switching (actually prefer) if the guy is the one leaving (unless the woman prefers) and he switches with someone who doesn't care or prefers. I don't want to sit near a male for hours and be careful getting up and all. Especially if he's a mega frum.

PinkFridge

Wed, Nov 05 2014, 10:14 am

Ruchel wrote:

Yeah, mega people are usually large enough to be quite uncomfortable on planes these days. Gets awkward. Some airlines might even require some mega people to buy two seats.