Frenemy drama, What to do? Help please!

amother

Sun, Nov 09 2014, 1:18 pm

My daughter has been close friends with the same two girls for many years. Let's call them Suri and Esti. Last year, Shaindy moved to town. At first, only DD was friends with Shaindy, but Suri and Esti finally let Shaindy join their circle. (Suri is the main leader of the group, and DD is the follower type.)

Go back six months, DD came to me and was upset with how Suri and Esti were treating her. Some of it was stuff I had noticed when they were in my house, some of it was new. She's at an age where you can't tell her who to be friends with unless there is a really big danger, so I held my tongue unless she came to me for advice. I always told her the same basic thing: "Your friendships are your choices. You have to decide if the good outweighs the bad. But, at the same time, you teach people what you will accept. You can tell Suri, 'I don't like it when you do this. Please stop.' You can tell her if she can't be nice, you need to take a break from her." So she's done that from time to time, although Suri really didn't take her seriously, and Esti joins in and gangs up. Even Shaindy, wanting to cozy up to Suri and Esti, has joined in at times picking on DD, although a lot of the time they play together very nicely.

Fast forward to a few weeks ago. Suri really crossed a line. DD called her and said, "I don't want to be around you because of the way you treat me." She's since been sitting with different girls at lunch, making other plans for Shabbos afternoon, etc.

The question is re Shaindy. DD explained that she really wants to be Shaidy's friend still, but she needs a break from Suri and Esti. Shaindy is constantly at our house. Sleeps over for Shabbos, comes for the afternoon seuda and stays until maariv. Etc. Etc. She has never been invited to Esti's or Suri's. Nevertheless, Shaindy said she didn't want to make new friends, that she was sticking with Esti and Suri.

Fine, so Shaindy is ignoring DD in school. Won't play with her, will barely talk to her. Then she comes up to me by carpool Friday and tells me DD wants her to come for a sleepover for Shabbos. DD had not mentioned it to me, and I told Shaindy it wasn't a good week, which it wasn't.

DD is torn. She didn't invite Shaindy at all, but she does miss her and said maybe she would like her to come another week. DH feels strongly that if Shaindy won't talk to DD in class, at lunch, or at recess, she doesn't need to come to our house for Shabbos. I want to respect what DD wants, but I see she is happier and less stressed since she is playing with different girls.

If you've read this far in this megillah, WWYD?

Dolly Welsh

Sun, Nov 09 2014, 4:36 pm

Don't be wishy washy. Teach your daughter that people can't get away with shenanigans such as liking you selectively, depending who else is around, or what else is available. Say no.

Shaindy is inconsistent. DD doesn't have to be horrible to her, but she has moved on, and has other friends now. So no, she can't come for Shabbos. It's your house. You get ultimate say and your taste in people prevails. When DD gets her own house she can invite whomever she wants. You are turned off and have no interest in feeding people who are mean. Whatever their size.

Shaindy also lied. She said she had been invited when she had not been. Not a good friend to have.

Faithless and a liar?

THIS is exactly the time to keep your DD away from the wrong kids. They only get wronger and wronger and wronger. Little kids, little problems, big kids, big problems.

This will be an interesting and instructive example to DD. She is sweet and needs instruction in being tough. She will never really be tough, but you will have helped her learn to stand up for herself. You already have: she stated in plain language that Suri had gone too far and zei gezunt.

Listen to DH! What is he, chopped liver? His word is law. Do you want to teach DD to ignore the wishes of her obviously wise father? It's kibbud av, not kibbud Shaindy or kibbud DD. He rules!

Being nice isn't being doormat and this is a great opportunity to teach that.

This isn't a time to respect DD's wishes. It is a time to be the parent and know better. You are older and wiser.

Learning

Sun, Nov 09 2014, 4:45 pm

Dolly Welsh wrote:

I agree. It is not a good friend to have. You will be setting dd up to a lot of heartbreak and disappointment. It is better not to start this friendship. I feel bad for this girl because she is new and she is also probably is getting bullied by these two girls. But your dd can't help her. Dd should stick to her other friends.

Barbara

Sun, Nov 09 2014, 4:56 pm

I'm not quite sure what your DD's role in the whole thing was. When you say that Shaindy told her that she (Shaindy) didn't want to make new friends, etc., it sounds like your DD told her that she had to choose between her and the other girls. And the other girls probably told her the same thing. Poor Shaindy! And, of course , if your DD did that, your DD was in the wrong.

IMNSHO, your DD should tell Shaindy that she wants to be friends, and Shaindy is always welcome, but DD won't be a secret friend. If Shaindy wont acjnowledge and be nice to her at school, she shouldn't expect DD to be friends outside of school.

ETA remember, this is girl drama. Maybe this is a permanent split. Or maybe they'll be best friends in 2 weeks. Don't get too involved.

singleagain

Sun, Nov 09 2014, 10:09 pm

Barbara wrote:

IMNSHO, your DD should tell Shaindy that she wants to be friends, and Shaindy is always welcome, but DD won't be a secret friend. If Shaindy wont acjnowledge and be nice to her at school, she shouldn't expect DD to be friends outside of school.

I really agree with the whole don't be secret friends thing. starting in 4th grade I felt like my best friend was drifting away from me, we rotated houses for shabbasim, and would talk on the phone and pass notes, but 4th grade was also when a few new girls came in, and then again in 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, and then high school .... but what I realized happened slowly, was that there wasn't time for me, in school. and eventually out of school and that was really painful, bc it would be winter break or whatever, and I'd call her and say "hey bed, let's do st" and she'd say "sorry singleagain, but I made plans with school friends. I see you all the time, but I only see them in school" at a certain point I wanted to be like, "you only see me in school also"

the not knowing if/when/how she was my friend was heartbreaking and still confuses me to this day when I try to look back at it... (we eventually drifted apart after she married and moved away, but that's not the point)

also, this can set up a pattern, even now years later, I recently confronted some of my friends, asking them "are you or are you not my friend, bc you say you want to, but then you're actions don't show it" sometimes, things have to be made very clear

although I do agree with the poster who felt bad for shaindy being put in a position to choose, tell DD not to make shaindy choose.

amother

Tue, Nov 11 2014, 12:20 pm

To answer your questions:

I did not tell DD anything vis a vis Shaindy. I said, as I have always said, "These are your friendships. You need to manage them. I'm here for advice, but I won't tell you want to do or do it for you."

She said that she said to Shaindy, "I'm not going to be sitting with Suri and Esti at lunch any more and I'm going to be playing with other girls at recess because of blah blah blah. I would still like to play with you and sit with you when you want." And she says Shaindy said, "I don't want to make any new friends. I'm fine with how it is." She made it clear she would only play with Esti and Suri.

Shaindy has many times told DD when she is over, "Let's don't get Suri and Esti to play. Let's just us play together. It's more fun." She has put my DD in the position of having to choose on a regular basis. And DD has always said, "Okay." Shaindy's also fine with my daughter being all alone on the playground (which has happened a few times since this all started although B"H every day it gets better). So I'm not so worried even if DD did make her choose, which she didn't. I don't see it as a big injustice. Sometimes you have to make choices. And if this is Shaindy's choice, that's totally, totally fine. But that doesn't mean she can lie to me and use my daughter when she has no other friends to play with because, as I said, she has been invited to Esti and Suri's houses exactly zero times. While we have hosted her more times thank I can count.

I also think Dolly has a good point. DD needs to learn how to stand up for herself now, when the stakes are low, rather than when a boy she is dating is behaving badly.