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Sabbath Mode Oven
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bluebubby









  


Post  Sun, Nov 09 2014, 8:37 pm
I need a new oven. Did anyone recently purchase an oven that can be used for a three day Yom Tov and has Sabbath mode without any kinks?
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granolamom









  


Post  Sun, Nov 09 2014, 8:48 pm
I have a GE profile oven, I bought it 5 years ago. I use it for three day yomtov/shabbos on the shabbos setting and its wonderful. no kinks.
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ROFL









  


Post  Sun, Nov 09 2014, 8:59 pm
I also have a Shabbat mode oven and it is great. Although I am not in my kitchen now so can't tell you which brand. The important thing is to know how to set it properly , you must read the instructions and understand them and use them correctly otherwise the oven will turn off after twelve hours
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MaBelleVie









  


Post  Sun, Nov 09 2014, 9:15 pm
I also have a ge and am happy with it. Just make sure that whatever you get is on the star k list (apparently some are advertised as sabbath mode without any verification by a certifying agency) http://www.star-k.org/cons-appl.htm
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amother






Post  Sun, Nov 09 2014, 9:57 pm
I have an Electrolux and I am thrilled with it!
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amother






Post  Sun, Nov 09 2014, 10:09 pm
Before using a sabbath mode oven check with your own Rabbi. I have one certified by star K but according to my rabbi I can only use it on yom tov not shabbos. I was also told not to adjust the temp on yom tov even though according to the star K you can.

Im sorry if Im coming across as a 'holier than you' attitude. I dont mean to. Its just that I always hold by the star K so I would not have thought to ask my rabbi about this if someone hadn't mentioned it to me.
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Leahh









  


Post  Sun, Nov 09 2014, 10:20 pm
amother wrote:
Before using a sabbath mode oven check with your own Rabbi. I have one certified by star K but according to my rabbi I can only use it on yom tov not shabbos. I was also told not to adjust the temp on yom tov even though according to the star K you can.

Im sorry if Im coming across as a 'holier than you' attitude. I dont mean to. Its just that I always hold by the star K so I would not have thought to ask my rabbi about this if someone hadn't mentioned it to me.

why can't you use it on shabbos? I have an oven with shabbos mode that I put into shabbos mode and set on the timer to go off an hour after the zman. I don't need it a whole shabbos just to keep the food warm until we eat Friday night. And I of course put all the food in the oven before the zman. Unless I am misunderstanding you I can not imagine why this would not be ok. Please explain what your Rav told you. I am following mine and wont change based on what you say but I am curious.
as far as yt, I put it in shabbos mode so it doesn't turn off after 12 hrs but my rav said I can not adjust the temperature. He holds the leniency by which the star-k goes by is not really 100% so he feels it's not ok to adjust the temperature. I leave it on 300F the whole yt.
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amother






Post  Sun, Nov 09 2014, 10:34 pm
Leahh wrote:
why can't you use it on shabbos? I have an oven with shabbos mode that I put into shabbos mode and set on the timer to go off an hour after the zman. I don't need it a whole shabbos just to keep the food warm until we eat Friday night. And I of course put all the food in the oven before the zman. Unless I am misunderstanding you I can not imagine why this would not be ok. Please explain what your Rav told you. I am following mine and wont change based on what you say but I am curious.
as far as yt, I put it in shabbos mode so it doesn't turn off after 12 hrs but my rav said I can not adjust the temperature. He holds the leniency by which the star-k goes by is not really 100% so he feels it's not ok to adjust the temperature. I leave it on 300F the whole yt.

Sorry that I wasnt clear. My rabbi told me exactly like your rabbi told you. Having the oven go off one hour after the zman is perfectly fine. I meant that sabbath mode doesnt help have warm food on shabbos day.
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MaBelleVie









  


Post  Sun, Nov 09 2014, 10:35 pm
amother wrote:
Sorry that I wasnt clear. My rabbi told me exactly like your rabbi told you. Having the oven go off one hour after the zman is perfectly fine. I meant that sabbath mode doesnt help have warm food on shabbos day.


Do you mean that you can't put food in on shabbos? Because star k doesn't hold that you can either.
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Chickpea









  


Post  Sun, Nov 09 2014, 11:19 pm
amother wrote:
Before using a sabbath mode oven check with your own Rabbi. I have one certified by star K but according to my rabbi I can only use it on yom tov not shabbos. I was also told not to adjust the temp on yom tov even though according to the star K you can.

Im sorry if Im coming across as a 'holier than you' attitude. I dont mean to. Its just that I always hold by the star K so I would not have thought to ask my rabbi about this if someone hadn't mentioned it to me.

I also have a (Bosch) star K sabbath mode oven. I had been using it for a few years for a 3 day yom tov until I was told by my rabbi that I could not take food out of the oven on Shabbos because it involved bishul(cooking). Although it's called a sabbath mode it could only be used on yom tov.
My oven also has a warming drawer which I was putting food into before Shabbos and taking out for the seuda on Fri night. When discussing this with my rabbi he told me that this is not permissible because it involves hatmana(insulating food while still on a heat source).
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Leahh









  


Post  Sun, Nov 09 2014, 11:32 pm
Chickpea wrote:
I also have a (Bosch) star K sabbath mode oven. I had been using it for a few years for a 3 day yom tov until I was told by my rabbi that I could not take food out of the oven on Shabbos because it involved bishul(cooking). Although it's called a sabbath mode it could only be used on yom tov.
My oven also has a warming drawer which I was putting food into before Shabbos and taking out for the seuda on Fri night. When discussing this with my rabbi he told me that this is not permissible because it involves hatmana(insulating food while still on a heat source).

I would check back with your rav. In my uneducated opinion and based on how my rav explained it to me that would only be the case if the food is put in the warming drawer on shabbos. Putting it in the warming drawer before shabbos and removing it on shabbos should be allowed.
Eta I reread your post and see that you were putting the food in before shabbos. Were you taking it out on shabbos then putting it back in? Because I've read up on this topic and according to the poskim I've seen it from, putting cooked food in oven or warming drawer before shabbos is allowed. Putting it back in on shabbos is questionable.
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heidi









  


Post  Sun, Nov 09 2014, 11:40 pm
From what I understand, Shabbos mode refers to being able to put food in before Shabbos and having the oven turn off without a timer beeping. Shabbos mode is really more of a yom tov mode. Being able to raise and lower temps. and cook on chag.
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Chickpea









  


Post  Sun, Nov 09 2014, 11:55 pm
Leahh wrote:
I would check back with your rav. In my uneducated opinion and based on how my rav explained it to me that would only be the case if the food is put in the warming drawer on shabbos. Putting it in the warming drawer before shabbos and removing it on shabbos should be allowed.

My husband just looked up the English source on the laws of cooking.
According to Artscroll The Shabbos Kitchen book,by Rabbi Simcha Bunim Cohen, " It is forbidden without exception to insulate any container of food in a material which intensifies heat. This prohibition applies Erev Shabbos as well as on Shabbos."
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farm









  


Post  Mon, Nov 10 2014, 12:26 am
Chickpea wrote:
My husband just looked up the English source on the laws of cooking.
According to Artscroll The Shabbos Kitchen book,by Rabbi Simcha Bunim Cohen, " It is forbidden without exception to insulate any container of food in a material which intensifies heat. This prohibition applies Erev Shabbos as well as on Shabbos."

So that would make putting food in the oven to cook/warm before shabbos and setting the oven to turn off right before the seuda forbidden. That must not be a majority opinion if so many of us were told it's okay.
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Chickpea









  


Post  Mon, Nov 10 2014, 1:34 am
farm wrote:
So that would make putting food in the oven to cook/warm before shabbos and setting the oven to turn off right before the seuda forbidden. That must not be a majority opinion if so many of us were told it's okay.

It's 100% OK to remove food from the oven if a timer shut it off right before the seuda. But that's not what I was talking about. I was talking about how it's not acceptable to remove food from an oven that's still turned on, on Shabbos. When the oven is on the 3 day yom tov mode, the 3rd day is Shabbos.
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OOTBubby









  


Post  Mon, Nov 10 2014, 10:08 am
heidi wrote:
.... yom tov mode. Being able to raise and lower temps. and cook on chag.


Please check with your LOR about this. While the Star-K allows this (raising & lowering temperatures on yom tov while in Sabbath Mode), many orthodox rabbonim do NOT allow it. There have been numerous articles on the web about this and statements from many prominent rabbonim disagreeing with the Star-K and stating that this is not allowed.
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Leahh









  


Post  Mon, Nov 10 2014, 10:14 am
Chickpea wrote:
It's 100% OK to remove food from the oven if a timer shut it off right before the seuda. But that's not what I was talking about. I was talking about how it's not acceptable to remove food from an oven that's still turned on, on Shabbos. When the oven is on the 3 day yom tov mode, the 3rd day is Shabbos.

By that logic, taking chulent out of the crockpot would not be ok either unless you set the crockpot on a timer to go off before the meal.
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Leahh









  


Post  Mon, Nov 10 2014, 10:30 am
Chickpea wrote:
My husband just looked up the English source on the laws of cooking.
According to Artscroll The Shabbos Kitchen book,by Rabbi Simcha Bunim Cohen, " It is forbidden without exception to insulate any container of food in a material which intensifies heat. This prohibition applies Erev Shabbos as well as on Shabbos."

I just checked the book myself. What you are quoting is referring to specific methods of heat intesifying insulation, not including an oven. There is another section on ovens, stoves, and blechs on page 50 but it discusses uncooked food more than cooked so I am unclear what the halachic would be for cooked foods.
I am going to try and contact Rabbi Cohen and ask for clarification. If anyone here has contact info please post.
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bluebubby









  


Post  Mon, Nov 10 2014, 10:36 am
Thanks for all your replies. My sister just bought a new GE oven and when she cooks on Timed bake so it should go off right before the meal the buzzer goes off and she cant disable it so she leaves it on regular bake and she takes out ALL the food at once [as per her LOR] and the oven stays on all Shabbos. Any ideas?
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amother






Post  Mon, Nov 10 2014, 11:20 am
MaBelleVie wrote:
Do you mean that you can't put food in on shabbos? Because star k doesn't hold that you can either.


At the risk of stating the obvious, I just want to mention that one may NEVER put- or return- food into a heated oven on Shabbos (unless there is a special oven insert that acts as a blech.)

I say this because the term Sabbath mode is a bit misleading. On Shabbos, the only thing the Sabbath mode will accomplish is that if you open the oven door, you won't be turning on a light or setting off anything else that is prohibited on Shabbos.

One may leave the oven on all Shabbos or have the oven go off at a certain time, as with any other (non sabbath mode) oven. But the Sabbath Mode ensures that when you open and close the oven, you won't inadvertently be raising the temperature directly, which can be a problem with some non-sabbath mode ovens (according to some poskim.)

I say this because I have come across people who think that Sabbath Mode means one may place food in the oven on Shabbos. Once, a Shabbos guest mentioned at the table that she loves the Sabbath Mode because now on Shabbos morning she could just put food in the oven and have warm food. When I mentioned that I don't think that's what sabbath Mode means, her husband chimed in that everyone in their family, and their parents, do it that way, so I must be wrong.

Another time, a woman mentioned that she always sticks the food in the oven twenty minutes before her husband gets home from shul Friday night, and that it's fine because the oven is on a very low setting. Shocked This woman grew up in a heimish home, and went to Bais Yaakov.
Please check with you LOR for clarifications...
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