Friend is too cheap

salt

Tue, Nov 11 2014, 2:04 am

If they ask your DH for a favor, and he doesn't want to do it, you can say something like "I don't have the time to do that at the moment, but I can recommend a very good handyman who's fairly reasonably priced...." and give them the name of someone. Sometimes people don't even know how to go about finding someone. Once they have the contact details of a fix-it man/ plumber/ electrician, etc, they might find they prefer going through them rather than asking favors from neighbors.

chani8

Tue, Nov 11 2014, 2:20 am

amother wrote:

Okay, I guess I'll MMOB. And start saying no without guilt when they ask for stuff. It's hard because I really want to say something! But I guess having this middah isn't the biggest deal in the world, I'll try to chill.

You can see what's wrong with this picture and you want to fix it. Most people don't take tochacha very well, though, and likely it will only damage your relationship.

My motto is, You don't have so say everything you think, even when you're right. That's a higher level of emess.

ora_43

Tue, Nov 11 2014, 11:42 am

I don't get all the posts suggesting that OP's friends are secretly financially struggling.

That wouldn't make their behavior OK. Even someone who is financially struggling shouldn't make a habit of asking for favors that involve someone doing work that would normally be paid, for free, without offering anything in return. The friends they're asking could be worse off than they are.

That said, OP, I agree with previous posters that it's best not to openly criticize them. But I like the suggestions for saying no in a way that kind of hints that they're asking a lot - stuff like "I know what you mean, I've had a hard week too. Maybe we could do a potluck, that way we can both rest a bit," or "Sorry, dh doesn't have time tonight. But I have the number of someone whose rates I hear are reasonable."

amother

Tue, Nov 11 2014, 1:07 pm

Just want to respond to a couple things -

1) You have no idea what their total budget might look like. Student loans can be HUGE. We pay over $500 a month on mine, and will for the next several years. We also didn't have much of a down payment to put down on our house, so our mortgage is higher than a lot of other people we know.

2) When people work full time, their childcare expenses are often HUGE. Our childcare expenses are more than our large mortgage.

3) The earlier you get started saving for retirement the better. Who are you to tell them they shouldn't be focused on retirement now? Now is the best time for them to start.

4) If your husband is a handyman, and they are asking him to do work, then why doesn't your husband just say, "I'd be happy to do that for you. Since this is my parnassa, my rate is $XX an hour." Problem solved.

In general, I hate these posts where the OP is spending someone else's money. I can rant and rave for hours about the people I see who are on Foodstamps and Medicaid and have weekly cleaning ladies while I don't anyone. But it's none of my business.

amother

Tue, Nov 11 2014, 1:14 pm

Code:

Perhaps they are feeling the lack of frum family, and hoping people in the community will be their adopted family. After all, the things you're describing are things I, at least, would be comfortable asking of a sister or brother, even if I could afford to pay for them.

I'm OP. I'm a BT too, with the same kind of family as theirs. I would never think I have carte blanche to ask all my friends to do stuff for free for me, just because boo hoo I don't have frum family!

amother

Tue, Nov 11 2014, 1:24 pm

OP here, and I'm getting annoyed by everyone insisting I don't know their true situation. While I don't think anyone ever knows everything about another person, they're very open and they love to talk about how they pinch pennies, so I know from them talking about it that 80% of their college and grad school was paid for by their families, and I know all about how they used a gemach loan to pay off the rest of their school costs because we're the ones who cosigned for them, and they like to talk about how smart it was to pay it off that way and then pay off the gemach loan over two years with no interest. I know all about how they bought a house that's just outside of the frum community so they could get a house for literally half what most houses here go for. Okay? I'm not some mean nasty person just making crazy guesses about people's lives. Again, like I said, we're close and they're very open about money, it's a favorite topic for them. And we're frugal too, so we enjoy these conversations. But if you see a friend who does something that's not right, not out of deliberately choosing but out of a lack of realizing what's appropriate, you wonder if you should gently suggest something to them. That's all. It comes from caring.

amother

Tue, Nov 11 2014, 1:42 pm

You have to focus on yourself. I hear where you are coming from. I used to get very annoyed about these things. But I am one of those people who believes retirement savings are a priority. This is not usual in the frum community I have discovered. But to us, this is a priority. Now, we do not ask for money from others, or favors. If you do not want to do a favor then don't.

I have friends that talk about how they cannot afford this or that, but then go and spend money frivolously. That is not my thing, but to each his own. I try to focus on myself and tell myself that Karma will get those who do wrong.

amother

Tue, Nov 11 2014, 2:07 pm

I think the real issue is that they seem to be somewhat socially clueless. My husband and I are wealthy, thank g-d. But we still watch our money, we don't just go buy $50 t shirts for our kids when the Target ones are just fine. We don't buy takeout every other night just because. We're careful. And your neighbors are allowed to be careful with their money, too...whether they need to be or not.

But the asking for favors and stuff is more about not understanding social norms.

amother

Tue, Nov 11 2014, 2:43 pm

amother wrote:

And we here are getting annoyed at your absolute insistence that because they tell you a lot of personal stuff you know EVERYTHING and are therefore entitled to nitpick. Guess what? YOU DO NOT AND NEVER WILL KNOW EVERYTHING. No matter what you think you know, there is ALWAYS some facet of their lives that you don't know about and that plays into their decision making. I don't know if they're right or wrong in their asking favors- maybe they are simply asking and understand they may get a no, which is perfectly reasonable behavior, or maybe they "ask" but it's really telling, in which case I understand your annoyance and it's wrong no matter what their income is. But you can just say no, or your husband can start charging (he can give a discount if he wants it to be a favor). My husband is the head of IT at a major company and makes close to 200k. Everyone and their uncle calls us when they have the slightest computer trouble, with no concept that what they're asking is NOT simple and my husband essentially makes hundreds of dollars each time he does that "simple" job at work. So except for close family he charges. Or just says no if he doesn't want to put in the time. You can do the same. Don't do things you don't want to do. But stop using it as an excuse to pass judgment on another family's finances.

amother

Tue, Nov 11 2014, 3:06 pm

I will tell you a following situation. Every time I pick up my son from school, there are many other kids waiting for their mothers and they are hungry. Their mothers come later and they wait outside for like 30 min. They are all starving after school. I bring snack for my kid and everyone else is stretching their hands to get some food too. Day after day. It is really annoying to me. I wish their mothers took care of this waiting and begging. But I made a choice not to jude the mothers, instead of it I say no, if there is one piece left, it goes to my kids and not the dozen others.

MamaBear

Tue, Nov 11 2014, 3:15 pm

amother wrote:

Somewhat off topic anecdote...

but I will say, keep your kid's snack to yourself til you round the corner. Why are you tempting those poor kids every day?

black sheep

Tue, Nov 11 2014, 3:19 pm

I know OP mentioned that they have money, and many posters are responding to that saying she can't know for sure, but I really think that is only a side issue. it sounds like this friend is cheap and tries to mooch off others time and money (asking to be invited for a shabbos meal without offering to bring at least half is mooching money, in my opinion.) I would be very annoyed if a friend or family member would constantly try to save and scrimp by having me and those around them foot the bill of their frugality. in fact, I do have family members who do this, so I know how it feels!!! but those I know who do this really don't have money, so I can forgive a lot imagining the dire straits they are in that leads them to call and invite themselves for yom tov without offering to bring or do anything, as an example. but if I knew they were doing well, and they constantly asked me to watch their kids while they go on a night out to help save money on babysitting, and have them over for a three day yom tov because they want to save money, and I felt, hey, I want to save money too! well I would be very, very upset. even if they had some hidden expenses they weren't telling me about.

it isn't so much about how much money they actually have, it is about taking advantage of others in order to save money. anyone who has a married brother learning in kollel understands the feeling of wanting to help them with nothing in return just because your heart breaks for their struggles. but if you have a brother or friend doing very well, likely better than you, you aren't going to feel the same about helping while getting nothing in return. you will feel taken advantage of.

when I get invited out for shabbos, I always offer to bring something, and in fact more than one thing since I am coming with a family. and if they say don't bring anything, I bring something substantial anyway, a house gift or a candy tray, something substantial. if I need a favor from a friend or relative like childcare or computer fixing, I offer to reciprocate, and once I baked a tray of cookies for a friend helping with my computer since she wouldn't accept money as payment. it is just plain rude to ask for favors all the time. especially if you are doing it as a way to save money, and especially if you are not financially in dire straits.

I think that is why OP is upset. not because they have more money than her, but because they are taking advantage of her, and she feels used, and she cannot even appease herself by saying "at least I am helping someone less fortunate make ends meet."

ETA is see that ORA said the same thing Smile

black sheep

Tue, Nov 11 2014, 3:27 pm

amother wrote:

I cannot tell if this is OP or not, but this is the weirdest thing for a mother to do. you feed your son in front of all his hungry friends and don't share with them? I teach my kids at a very young age, you can only eat in front of others if they are also eating, or if you have enough to share with all of them. even my six year old knows this, how could a mother not know this? it is cruel to eat in front of hungry people. either bring enough to share, or wait a little longer to eat.