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Pro vaccine/Anti vaccine...What about vaccine safety?
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Supermom#1




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 12 2014, 11:08 am
I just finished reading the thread titled "Alarming! Please respond only if you support vaccination"about the outrageous things that are being spread on some hotline regarding vaccines and other health matters. There sure is an awful lot of ignorance out there. That said, I think it's time that we start discussing vaccine safety, NOT anti-vaccine.

Is it really best for each child to adhere to the one-size-fits-all vaccination schedule? Does doctor always know best?

There are vaccines that are really important; they protect against dangerous infectious disease.

There are also vaccines that are not necessary for an infant or young child and there are those that are too new for us to trust the super-quick "safety studies."

Also, the recommended vaccine schedule is one that should be alarming or at least, of major concern to all parents. Here is the vaccine schedule recommended by the American Academy of Pediatrics, the CDC & most pediatricians. Most parents are not aware of the amount of vaccines their baby is being injected with and are pretty shocked when they see this on paper:

Birth – Hep B
1 month – Hep B
2 months – DTaP, HIB, Pc, Rotavirus, Polio
4 months – DTaP HIB, Pc, Rotavirus, Polio
6 months – DTaP, HIB, Pc, Rotavirus, Hep B, Flu (2 doses)
1 year – MMR, Chickenpox, Hep A
15 months – HIB, Pc
18 months – DTaP, Polio, Hep A, Flu (if in season)
2 years – Flu vaccine every year hereafter through 18 years
5 years – DTaP, Polio, MMR, Flu
11-12 years – Tdap, Meningococcal, HPV

16 years – Meningococcal booster

Dr. Sears, pro-vaccine pediatrician & author of The Vaccine Book, says: "My main worry about this schedule is that there really hasn’t been enough research on the various chemicals and ingredients in many vaccines to prove that they are 100% safe. It has also been my experience that giving 5 or 6 vaccines at a time can increase the likelihood of a severe reaction."
He then goes on to recommend an alternative vaccine schedule as well as a selective vaccine schedule.

The problem that I've observed is, that as parents become more aware of the way vaccines are manufactured, recommended and then mandated, they become very wary and many stop vaccinating altogether. This, of course, isn't good either. Proceeding with caution is the way to go.
For those of you who have learned about vaccines and are wary to abide by the recommended schedule, how did you proceed?
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Ema of 5




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 12 2014, 11:21 am
Supermom#1 wrote:
I just finished reading the thread titled "Alarming! Please respond only if you support vaccination"about the outrageous things that are being spread on some hotline regarding vaccines and other health matters. There sure is an awful lot of ignorance out there. That said, I think it's time that we start discussing vaccine safety, NOT anti-vaccine.

Is it really best for each child to adhere to the one-size-fits-all vaccination schedule? Does doctor always know best?

There are vaccines that are really important; they protect against dangerous infectious disease.

There are also vaccines that are not necessary for an infant or young child and there are those that are too new for us to trust the super-quick "safety studies."

Also, the recommended vaccine schedule is one that should be alarming or at least, of major concern to all parents. Here is the vaccine schedule recommended by the American Academy of Pediatrics, the CDC & most pediatricians. Most parents are not aware of the amount of vaccines their baby is being injected with and are pretty shocked when they see this on paper:

Birth – Hep B
1 month – Hep B
2 months – DTaP, HIB, Pc, Rotavirus, Polio
4 months – DTaP HIB, Pc, Rotavirus, Polio
6 months – DTaP, HIB, Pc, Rotavirus, Hep B, Flu (2 doses)
1 year – MMR, Chickenpox, Hep A
15 months – HIB, Pc
18 months – DTaP, Polio, Hep A, Flu (if in season)
2 years – Flu vaccine every year hereafter through 18 years
5 years – DTaP, Polio, MMR, Flu
11-12 years – Tdap, Meningococcal, HPV

16 years – Meningococcal booster

Dr. Sears, pro-vaccine pediatrician & author of The Vaccine Book, says: "My main worry about this schedule is that there really hasn’t been enough research on the various chemicals and ingredients in many vaccines to prove that they are 100% safe. It has also been my experience that giving 5 or 6 vaccines at a time can increase the likelihood of a severe reaction."
He then goes on to recommend an alternative vaccine schedule as well as a selective vaccine schedule.

The problem that I've observed is, that as parents become more aware of the way vaccines are manufactured, recommended and then mandated, they become very wary and many stop vaccinating altogether. This, of course, isn't good either. Proceeding with caution is the way to go.
For those of you who have learned about vaccines and are wary to abide by the recommended schedule, how did you proceed?

I delay vax, generally giving one or two at a time. There are also those which I skip altogether. With each child I give fewer an fewer and they are more spread out.
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Supermom#1




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 12 2014, 11:27 am
which ones do you skip & why?
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Ema of 5




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 12 2014, 11:32 am
Supermom#1 wrote:
which ones do you skip & why?

Chicken pox (because it is unnecessary- it was developed originally so moms wouldn't have to miss so much work)
Flu (it's too new to really know anything about it, and te side affects are worse then the actual flu, which is generally not deadly)
Hep B (I haven't been convinced of the necessity)

I think there are a few others but I can't remember at the moment.
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Ema of 5




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 12 2014, 11:33 am
Supermom#1 wrote:
which ones do you skip & why?

I will ask you the same. How do you vaccinate and why?
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wifenmother




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 12 2014, 11:40 am
eema of 3 wrote:
Chicken pox (because it is unnecessary- it was developed originally so moms wouldn't have to miss so much work)
Flu (it's too new to really know anything about it, and te side affects are worse then the actual flu, which is generally not deadly)
Hep B (I haven't been convinced of the necessity)

I think there are a few others but I can't remember at the moment.


Is Hep B a mandatory vaccine?
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Ema of 5




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 12 2014, 11:44 am
wifenmother wrote:
Is Hep B a mandatory vaccine?

Not sure....I know in NYC chicken pox and flu are...not sure how I'm going to deal with that when we have to start dealing with schools. I think my older two actually have avert thing and were up to date by te time they started school. It's really just my 2.5 year old who isn't fully vaxed. My next one, whenever that is, will have even less, but by then I will know how to deal with it with the schools :-)
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Hashem_Yaazor




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 12 2014, 11:45 am
There is a new meningitis vaccine that was just fast tracked and approved for ages 10-25 but this is the statement put out by Pfizer:

"As with any vaccine, TRUMENBA may not prevent disease in all vaccinated individuals. The frequency of meningococcal disease caused by serogroup B varies geographically, and could influence the ability to evaluate effectiveness of the vaccine in any given country. Based on the low incidence of meningococcal disease, placebo-controlled clinical trials for TRUMENBA were considered unfeasible due to the size of the study that would be required and were not performed. "

This makes me quite nervous that it was fast tracked.

BTW, HPV is frequently given to 10 year olds now.
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Ema of 5




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 12 2014, 11:45 am
http://www.health.ny.gov/publi.....0.pdf

Don't have time to read it right now, I have to run to carpool. Will read it later to see what is mandatory.
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amother


 

Post Wed, Nov 12 2014, 11:46 am
eema of 3 wrote:
Chicken pox (because it is unnecessary- it was developed originally so moms wouldn't have to miss so much work)
Flu (it's too new to really know anything about it, and te side affects are worse then the actual flu, which is generally not deadly)
Hep B (I haven't been convinced of the necessity)

I think there are a few others but I can't remember at the moment.


Flu shot is around longer than the Hep B and A.
I've been getting the flu shot since I'm an infant because my aunt is severely asthmatic and she babysat me, and I was born in October of 1989.
There were studies on it then, so I'm just wondering why you consider it new?
I also got the Hep B and A vaccines because we travelled extensively and those are must haves for travel out of the US.
They were recommended when I was in 6th grade for all children, but I see that today the Hep A is not mandatory.
My mother actually knows someone personally who got Hep B from coming into contact with a contaminated towel and it became a chronic infection, and while that is probably rare, she did not have relations so I feel that the Hep B is important even for those w/o multiple partners.
Anon b/c my DOB.
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Hashem_Yaazor




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 12 2014, 11:47 am
wifenmother wrote:
Is Hep B a mandatory vaccine?


Yes, most, if not all, states, have this listed as a school requirement. (Alabama, South Dakota, and Montana were the ones not listed when I checked it up, but the information was from 2005.)
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Supermom#1




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 12 2014, 11:48 am
I go according to Dr. Sears' selective schedule. I'll post it here soon.
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Scrabble123




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 12 2014, 11:48 am
Hashem_Yaazor wrote:
There is a new meningitis vaccine that was just fast tracked and approved for ages 10-25 but this is the statement put out by Pfizer:

"As with any vaccine, TRUMENBA may not prevent disease in all vaccinated individuals. The frequency of meningococcal disease caused by serogroup B varies geographically, and could influence the ability to evaluate effectiveness of the vaccine in any given country. Based on the low incidence of meningococcal disease, placebo-controlled clinical trials for TRUMENBA were considered unfeasible due to the size of the study that would be required and were not performed. "

This makes me quite nervous that it was fast tracked.

BTW, HPV is frequently given to 10 year olds now.


HY: It was fast tracked, but extensive studies were conducted in the UK, Canada, and Australia. It was fast tracked because of the recent outbreaks on college campuses. Many parents were actually traveling to Canada to get their children vaccinated again the Meningitis B Bacterium. A girl recent was killed from it in San Diego and last year there were a few deaths as well as amputations on college students. Parents wanted the vaccine, and very extensive research was done in other countries as well (that is why last year the FDA allowed the use of the Bexsero vaccine which was not approved in the US to vaccinate students on the campuses that experienced outbreaks).
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chaiz




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 12 2014, 11:55 am
amother wrote:

My mother actually knows someone personally who got Hep B from coming into contact with a contaminated towel and it became a chronic infection, and while that is probably rare, she did not have relations so I feel that the Hep B is important even for those w/o multiple partners.
Anon b/c my DOB.

Hep B is not just an STD. It is spread through any bodily fluid including things like saliva and blood. (Human feces as well if I am not mistaken) It is a known occupational hazard for many health workers.
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Hashem_Yaazor




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 12 2014, 11:55 am
Trumenba is not approved in any other country. How did they get it in Canada?

It bothers me that it is approved and no longer subject to further testing which was dismissed as "unfeasible".

I would want to see future evidence that it is indeed safe and effective.


Last edited by Hashem_Yaazor on Wed, Nov 12 2014, 11:58 am; edited 1 time in total
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chaiz




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 12 2014, 11:57 am
Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

BTW, HPV is frequently given to 10 year olds now.

Not that I am running for the HPV or planning on giving it to my kids, I can see why they are giving it so young. My understanding is that s-xual activity starts quite young and you want to make sure they are protected.
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Hashem_Yaazor




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 12 2014, 11:59 am
I get it too. I am just clarifying for the sake of the schedule in the OP.
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Hashem_Yaazor




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 12 2014, 12:00 pm
(FWIW, even when I have opinions that may be contrary or concerns that others want to dismiss, that does not mean I don't understand the other side. I completely do. I do know why they fast tracked Trumenba. I do understand why Gardasil is given to 10 year olds. That does not diminish my concerns.)
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Scrabble123




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 12 2014, 12:00 pm
Hashem_Yaazor wrote:
Trumenba is not approved in any other country. How did they get it in Canada?

It bothers me that it is approved and no longer subject to further testing which was dismissed as "unfeasible".

4500 people is not something I consider extensive, and I would want to see future evidence that it is indeed safe and effective.


It is a replica of other Meningitis B vaccines approved in Canada, UK, Australia, as well as other countries. Trumenba is just the name patented in the U.S. by the producer of the vaccine. There are many different names for many vaccines depending on who produced it and who licensed it, but that does not change what is inside. There are vaccines produced with different ingredients purposely, but that is not what we're discussing here (Ex: multi dose flu vials and single dose). Think about if Coke just had a different name in another country yet had the same ingredients (which BTW Israeli Coke does not)...
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Scrabble123




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 12 2014, 12:03 pm
Those who create vaccines and market them care about safety. They care about safety because if their product isn't safe, another company will come out with one that is. If it's not safe and causes side effects, they will get stuck dishing out money. Maybe they don't care so much about the individuals, but they definitely do want vaccines. They know about the skeptics out there and they want to make vaccines as safe as possible so people will get them as well.
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