living in town and not keeping pas yisroel

amother

Thu, Nov 13 2014, 12:22 am

So I got myself in a pickle today.
I'm from OOT and dh from intown. He grew up in yeshivish home.
We sometimes eat bread not pas Yisroel as our own decision even tho we live in town (we like the bread and bagels better).
My inlaws found that out today and were not so happy. I don't advertise it to them so they didn't know but they saw it in my house and were a bit creeped out. They said there is so much available, why would we buy not PY.
I didn't wanna argue so I just kept mouth shut.
But I felt like a lowlife.
I keep chalav Yisroel so I imagine its what someone who doesn't keep CY feels like when ppl make comments abt it.
Though from me and dh understanding, CY has more of issue than bread bought in a mass produced Walmart. So we choose to be makpid (not telling anyone what is right wrong, just our decision)

Aside from inlaws reaction not being called for, what's ur opinion on not keeping pas Yisroel intown with the massive availability (but not loving what's out there.)?

seeker

Thu, Nov 13 2014, 1:14 am

I believe that halachically there is an allowance for qualitative difference - e.g. if the Jewish breads available are really inferior (in your taste) and it's all mass-produced anyway, then it becomes OK to buy the non-Jewish ones. Also if there is a location/timing preference - e.g. it's five minutes to suppertime, you were going to serve sandwiches but just ran out of bread, you can get it prepackaged at the non-Jewish supermarket right next door or can go to the Jewish bakery 5 blocks away which may even be closing soon and low on stock - you may be permitted to just do what's easier for you.

This is what DH told me. He is generally makpid on pas yisrael but says you can be meikil in a pinch and it doesn't have to be a hard pinch when it's all commercial, because that's already like a heter on top of a heter - since the original law was about not mingling with non-Jews by eating their food but here there isn't really a "their;" nobody is inviting you into their house to eat the bread they made while sitting with their daughters. Cholov yisrael I believe had more to do with kashrus concerns; since we trust the kashrus procedures of the OU combined with the USDA regulation of milk in general, we are not makpid on cholov Yisrael whereas we are makpid on pas yisrael, because they stem from two different halachic categories so they have different exceptions.

monseychick

Thu, Nov 13 2014, 1:40 am

The Rama, says that if the quality is better or its significantly more expensive, you can be mekil.

Also, another trick is, you can make it pas yisroel if it isn't derech achila yet.

For example, most ppl dont eat english muffins out of the pkg, so when you put it in toaster you are making it PY with final step.

I believe R Belsky holds like that

amother

Mon, Nov 17 2014, 10:47 pm

Thanks, just saw these responses, Im OP.

Thanks for the Rema quote - will ask dh to look it up. I know its muttar as I grew up with non-PY out of town and my fam is makpid CY.
However in town it is so much more available.... I seriously dont find any bagels like thomas bagels in the heimish world!!!!!! (Im sure there are ppl out there that get what I mean!)

It made me curious to know how many ppl in town choose not to keep PY for some things due to taste inferiority.

Bitachon101

Tue, Nov 18 2014, 1:13 am

amother wrote:

Can you folks kindly define "living in town"? As opposed to what? Living on a farm? Suburbs?

In town is often terminology for Brooklyn lakewood monsey where Jewish products are readily available. And where chareidi Jews stick together in larger numbers.

Dina, what is appalling?

amother

Tue, Nov 18 2014, 1:22 am

Bitachon101 wrote:

In town is often terminology for Brooklyn lakewood monsey where Jewish products are readily available. And where chareidi Jews stick together in larger numbers.

So, according to OP, a person living in Midtown Manhattan lives out of town? That explains a lot. Thanks.

zaq

Tue, Nov 18 2014, 1:29 am

Why feel like a lowlife? If you believe that your way of doing things is acceptable lefi halacha, you have nothing to be ashamed of. And if you feel that it is not acceptable lefi halacha, why are you doing it? Your inlaws' opinion should have no bearing on the matter.

amother

Tue, Nov 18 2014, 10:53 am

fwiw, I live in lkwd and don't keep CY. I buy the milk and cheese, stuff like that. but we have non-CY ice cream. who cares. my in laws have also commented. seriously, that's their issue. its rude to make comments to your adult children who are hosting you as guests. its not any kind of reflection on you or the decisions you make. you're entitled to do as you please. your house, your rules. just smile sweetly and change the subject. and if you cant change the subject, close it. just say, thank you for sharing, we'll certainly consider what you say and that's the end of it.

really, ur hardly a lowlife for eating a diff type of kosher. no one should be allowed to make you feel inferior like that!

amother

Tue, Nov 18 2014, 11:38 am

amother wrote:

I'm a bit confused embarrassed

- is it not pas yisroel even though the bread has an ou on it? like thomas muffins? so bread can be kosher but not pas yisroel?

Definitely. My parents buy bread with Ou and other hechsherim that are not pas yisroel. For non-heimish hechsher it typically says pas yisroel if it is.
It was a culture shock to me when I got married that my DH only eats pas yisroel (bread, crackers, cookies, pretzels, etc)

Hashem_Yaazor

Tue, Nov 18 2014, 11:40 am

Quote:

I'm a bit confused Embarassed - is it not pas yisroel even though the bread has an ou on it? like thomas muffins? so bread can be kosher but not pas yisroel?

Correct, most Ashkenazim are not makpid on PY. I believe Sefardim are, as well as Lubavtichers; I am not sure about other chassidim or minhagim.

That being said, Thomas bagels and other store bought bread taste overly processed and full of preservatives to me, and I'd much rather have freshly baked bread from the bakery (if not from home)! I guess it's what you're used to Wink

MaBelleVie

Tue, Nov 18 2014, 11:44 am

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

Quote:

I'm a bit confused Embarassed - is it not pas yisroel even though the bread has an ou on it? like thomas muffins? so bread can be kosher but not pas yisroel?

I agree! I was laughing as I read her post, because the prepackaged breads at large supermarkets tend to be the least appealing to me. Definitely al taam vareiach.

Scrabble123

Tue, Nov 18 2014, 11:46 am

I was taught that pas palter is acceptable, accept during the aseres ymei teshuva. I was told that the Rabonim saw that asking klal yisroel to keep pas yisroel was too difficult, so that is why pas palter is acceptable. I eat my pretzels, cheerios, and bread even though pas yisroel alternatives are available because THEY TASTE BETTER AND ARE HEALTHIER!! That being said, when I get married again, we'll see what my future dh has to say about that.

amother

Tue, Nov 18 2014, 12:02 pm

amother wrote:

Can you folks kindly define "living in town"? As opposed to what? Living on a farm? Suburbs?

Often on this site 'in-town' refers to Brooklyn or Lakewood. However I think in this thread 'in-town' refers to any large Jewish community where 'Jewish brand' products are readily available.

nyer1

Tue, Nov 18 2014, 12:05 pm

I live "in town" and don't strictly keep either one. I do what's good for me. when I have guests I am always respectful and buy only pas yisroel and chalav yisrael, but I didn't grow up frum, I feel kashrus was a big deal for me to begin with.

Notsobusy

Tue, Nov 18 2014, 12:08 pm

MaBelleVie wrote:

I agree! I was laughing as I read her post, because the prepackaged breads at large supermarkets tend to be the least appealing to me. Definitely al taam vareiach.

You may be right about the breads, but try the kosher brand pretzels, crackers or cereals. You will probably stop laughing pretty quickly Wink

. I also can't imagine a life with no Stella doro cookies, there is no pas yisrael cookie that comes close.

And I agree with amother who said that for this topic in town would mean any place where pas yisrael is readily available.