Is it normal to need 113K/year for family of 6?

Fox

Wed, Nov 19 2014, 12:27 pm

OP, you'll no doubt get lots of responses about how to save $50 here and $15 there. The suggestions are often good, but they nibble around the outside of the problem.

The answer is, yes, it costs this much for a frum family to live relatively modestly. Nor is the problem limited to Jewish families, though certain religious needs and priorities obviously exacerbate the problem.

The double-whammy of tuition and health care is a huge drain on disposable income, and saving few bucks on diapers or ironing your DH's shirts ultimately won't bridge the gap.

I wish I had a solution, but it's a societal problem that far too many people refuse to face. Like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic, they either focus on small frugalities or essentially blame others for not making enough money.

My biggest concern is that, over time, a fully-observant life in the US will become a "luxury good" that is out of the practical reach of many Jews.

amother

Wed, Nov 19 2014, 12:51 pm

I think in general people like to live a very comfortable lifestyle so 113,000 is reasonable for many but you can absolutely live on less!
I live in Brooklyn and live on a much smaller budget. I really think you can rework your health insurance for your kids, your cell phones, and definitely your food bill. Especially if 1200$ does not include chicken or your cleaning supplies! Kids do not NEED yogurts ( I make my own by the way). I buy alot of organic items and specialty items like almond flour (gluten free ds) and duck eggs (9$ a dozen as ds allergic to chicken eggs and being able to serve him the same foods as everyone else is non negotiable in my budget) and my bill is still way less. Oatmeal is a quick and cheap breakfast. We only buy cheese in a block and cut or grate ourselves. We eat fleishigs almost every night as well. Coupons are doubled in Lakewood and you can save alot with that.
I drastically reduced my car insurance by leaving GEICO for a year( for a better price by combining it with renters insurance through an insurance agent) and then coming back a year later and getting a quote for 1,000$ less.
Combining errands saves on gas. I maintain dds haircuts to stretch them out for longer by trimming her bangs ( I also have to left hands with hair but I practiced when she was young). Dh taught himself to cut boy's hair.
I have replaced my dh's shirts with non iron shirts (Lands End for weekday and Charles Tarwhitt 29$ special non iron sales for shabbos).
I disagree that saving here and there isn't the answer because of you wheedle down your bills by 500$ a month even .... its a whopping 6K over the year and thats a nice safety net.
PS We live in Brooklyn (not OOT) and we finance a 2014 honda odyssey and I have new sheitels and nice jewery and I buy my kids clothes. We saved up ourselves close to 150,000$ ( obviously more when we had less kids). and 80,000 in a retirement account and I live on HALF of what you make with 3 kids and I pay more in tuition and childcare. I do get free health insurance from my job though and only pay copays... We have no debt (Bli Ayin Hara) other than car loan. I took jobs that ultimately paid off my school loans after a number of years so those are paid off as well. We also are careful with Maaser.

out-of-towner

Wed, Nov 19 2014, 1:26 pm

amother wrote:

You don't mention tuition. Where does that fall into your budget?

Just curious.

causemommysaid

Wed, Nov 19 2014, 5:34 pm

Fox wrote:

I think you're probably right. It probably goes under the "Issues of Concern" sub-forum, but it terrifies me that a family has to be in the 95th percentile in household income in the U.S. in order to live a Jewishly-observant life.

It is impossible for 100 percent of any group to consistently rank in the top 5 percent of household incomes. I don't know the answer, but clipping coupons and wearing hand-me-downs doesn't miraculously enable a family to live on the average U.S. household income.

yes money saving techniques are great but at the end of the day, we still pay 25% more on food, an average of 30-50K a year POST TAX on tuition, and an average of 5-10K a year on religious related items (shaitels, tznius clothing, mezuzos, tefillin, tzedaka, maaser, yom tov expenses, bar mitzvahs, bat mitzvahs, shul fees, and lots more)

its frightening.

amother

Wed, Nov 19 2014, 8:59 pm

OP here. Thanks everyone for their input! It's really reassuring (as well as terrifying!) to know that I'm not off target... maybe "vindicating" is a better word.

As far as the more picayune details of saving money here and there, some great ideas here! Some responses -

INSURANCE:
some amothers were advocating a get subsidized insurance - I've done my homework and it isn't possible, other than getting my kids onto JerseyCare.... which would save tons of $$$$ BUT not allow them to have any out of state care - and to the amother who claims there is ER care, let me just tell you that the CARE YOU RECEIVE IN THE ER is covered, but NOT IF YOU GET ADMITTED. That means if G-d forbid you go to NY and get into a car crash, ANY HOSPITALIZATIONS WILL NOT BE COVERED!!! And, thanks to ObamaCare, you CANNOT BUY INSURANCE as one would have done in the past - ie, buy Oxford at the drop of the hat to cover for hospitalizations - because you may only buy insurance during open enrollment (Nov- Feb 15) or change of life situation (moving, birth, etc). which means - again - get seriously injured out of state and you are OUT OF INSURANCE COVERAGE. I can't do that... I was once in a car accident out of state and we ran through a quarter of a million bucks within two days. I know what that's like first-hand, and it's not even a remote option for me. I don't know if all the Lakewood people on JC know that... people should speak to their brokers and find out all the dirty details...

GROCERIES:
As far as groceries, I'm at a loss. I, too, do all these tricks people have posted (short of the shredding cheese, which I just don't have the time for.) I NEVER buy brand name except for Shufra cocoa, I NEVER buy toiletries in the co-op (except emergencies), I always buy reduced produce and meat... Can't say we eat a lot of pizza and pasta (health reasons) but I try to stretch stretch stretch the chicken we eat and we eat one piece of reduced meat ($7) in the cholent each week and that is it. I buy only the manager specials on chopped meat... I made a spreadsheet of all the major groceries in town and compared prices on all the items I buy, and judged which one store saves me most overall as I can't run around to different stores time and business wise (short of the toiletries which I buy in WalMart.) We eat oatmeal and kasha for breakfast 75% of the time (off-brand Cheerios are for Shabbos and emergencies...) I made whole wheat bread and yogurt for the year we really couldn't make ends meet, but the bread took too much time and the yogurt really needs (cholov stam) powdered milk to be stable, and it isn't the same (especially since I try to give my kids Greek yogurt for the extra protein, and that's too much work AND costs about the same to buy all that milk!) instead I buy the huge containers and save a dollar - it's a staple in our family, we can't drop it. Just went shopping today and dropped over 300 on a meticulously preplanned list, with no extras (other than the coconut oil, which I price-compared in four locations first.) How do people do it??? I did this last year but I'll do it again now that amothers here are inspiring me - gonna save my receipts and see honestly if there's any waste or where I can cut. I don't want to return to the days of surviving on whole wheat matza because it was 1.59/box instead of 2.69/loaf of whole wheat bread, but maybe there's something I can cut...?

CLOTHES - to the amother who said 150/month is too much, again - it's not that I'm spending 150 per month, it's me collating EVERY SINGLE expense over the course of the year (winter wear, underwear for kids and parents, socks, tights, hair accessories, makeup, tichels, shoes, sneakers, boots, bathing suits, robes, coats/jackets, clothes, shabbos clothes...) and dividing it by twelve. We take hand-me-downs with delight and buy pretty much exclusively from the clearance racks at Target or Children's Place - or, to splurge, at Wal-Mart!! I save clothes from year to year and pass them down the line too.