Why do people with IF always compare?

amother

Wed, Nov 19 2014, 1:54 pm

This is something I've seen on many, many threads over the years. When people have problems, there is always at least one poster with IF who pipes up and says "Be thankful for XYZ. I have IF and it's the worst thing ever."

For one, IF is not the worst thing ever. Yes, it can be terrible and awful.

For another, people experience challenges of all types. Some are visible, some are not. Some leave battle scars on some people, some leave none. Sometimes, the same thing can occur to two different people and some are fine and some are shattered. Don't minimize someone elses pain based on your experience with IF.

We all deserve a chance to vent and get help for our own issues.

Chayalle

Wed, Nov 19 2014, 2:00 pm

I actually avoid saying things like that. I hope I don't. I actually find that it is people who DON'T have IF who have a tendency to say those types of comments.

If I open a thread and it's about someone overwhelmed by many children, I actually feel for that person. And if they are complaining that they just had their 5th boy and are disappointed, I recognize that I am not the intended audience and I close that thread as quickly as I can (though I'll admit to feeling a twinge for the latter....)

amother

Wed, Nov 19 2014, 2:05 pm

I'm IF and absolutely despise when people do things like this. Check out the thread http://imamother.com/forum/vie.....92017

It drives me nuts. Obviously it is hurtful in the reverse too but seriously, it needs to stop. I was really upset how that recent thread went downhill like that....I cringed by the first response and see it just keeps going.
Stop invalidating e/o else's pain....they are allowed to complain about their child and are not being ingrates. You complain about your aches on your body? There are those who don't have those body parts! There are those that are not alive! etc. It's the same argument.

Scrabble123

Wed, Nov 19 2014, 3:22 pm

People all have their own difficulties. Acknowledging your own difficulties and accepting them allows you to find ways to deal with them. It is wrong to judge someone because your difficulty is different than theirs. Imagine a single woman telling someone to appreciate her abusive husband because at least she isn't single? Or an orphan telling an abused child to appreciate their parents because at least they have them. What about someone with a difficult child telling people with IF to be happy because the child has taken a toll on them?

Yes, it is important for people to acknowledge that their situation is not the worst, and to realize that if they are struggling with a child that there are those who are struggling to have just one, but that does not mean that they are not allowed to complain or struggle on their own level. An orphan can mourn its mother, an abused child her childhood, and a child of a parent who embarrasses them will also have to learn how to deal with that. Each and every individual's situation is created just for him/her. It's what Hashem throws his/her way, and it is what he/she needs to deal with on this world. Don't make rude comments, don't tell people to "just adopt." I mean that is totally inconsiderate, but let someone vent their frustrations in whatever area of life they have them.

I think that IF hits a greater toll because man is wired to want to reproduce. That is how we survive. Especially in the frum world, where people are constantly surrounded by children and it's almost a competition. In this world, a lot of people cannot feel apart of it without children. For all of those amothers and others in klal yisroel who are waiting for children, may Hashem give you healthy, happy children.

To everyone, recognize where you are blessed, and try to work on where you feeling you are still missing out. Acknowledge your situation and that of others. Complain constructively. I think that everyone would agree that constructive complaints are much easier to stomach than not, but sometimes people do just need to vent.

I think that ultimately people realize that we ask Hashem to keep us healthy and happy, and besides for that we want a lot but will try to make the best of our lot.

*I should really go back and change they to he/she/her/him/etc. but it's just easier to type colloquially and leave it at all.

amother

Wed, Nov 19 2014, 3:31 pm

My son was born sick, but most people do not know about it. He was b"h cured to a point that no one would have any reason to know.
I have a relative whose grandson was born at about the same time with a similar problem, but he was NOT cured, and is currently still sick and mentally delayed. She does not know about my son's history.

One Pesach, I was mentioning to this person how challenging it is to take care of young children sometimes. She said, "how could you talk that way?!? You have two beautiful healthy children. I know someone who has to have a night nurse because her child is so sick..."

To which I responded (and I know, it was an extreme chutzpah, but I cannot stand such attitudes) "how can YOU complain? I know plenty of people who would give anything to have a child, even a sick one like that!"

Basically - everyone has challenges. Some more obvious, some seemingly more difficult than others. But no one has the right to compare!

Besuros Tovos to everyone!!!!

luppamom

Wed, Nov 19 2014, 3:51 pm

In general, it's not good to complain about things that most people would consider a bracha. I'm not talking about an abusive husband or sick child. I am talking about obvious brachos. It's like a married 19 yr. old complaining that she lost her independence or a kollel wife w/ money complaining that she doesn't fit in w/ her poor kollel friends. Or the lady that had a baby after 9 mos. complaining that she lost her Shana Rishona. These could be huge challenges for the person that is going through them, but they are generally considered BIG brachos and can warrant extreme jealousy, especially if the person complains about them. I'm not saying they don't need to vent, but they need to pick the right person or group to vent to. Imamother is complicated b/c on one hand the poster can get support and chizzuk, but on the other hand, she doesn't know who might be jealous and hurt by her.
Can a screen-name get an ayin hora?

SS6099

Wed, Nov 19 2014, 4:03 pm

amother wrote:

IF is not the worst thing ever. But as one who suffers severe IF, please do NOT undermine ANYONE or judge anyone with IF. Some view it harder than others and some view other challenges harder than others. But please don't judge. Period.

ora_43

Wed, Nov 19 2014, 4:03 pm

amother wrote:

You can't compare situations. Everyone's pain is real and hurts them a lot. It's not fair to tell someone that your situation is much worse than theirs.

I mostly agree. But it's also not fair to complain about your situation to someone who wishes they had your problem. IRL I would try very hard not to complain about how hard it is taking care of a baby to someone I know desperately wants a baby.

The problem is that online, we can't differentiate like that. So we all need to be a little more patient.

amother

Wed, Nov 19 2014, 4:08 pm

ora_43 wrote:

Of course, I try very hard to not complain even jokingly about my husband to my friend who is an almana etc. You have to know your audience.

I think its very hard to vent online because we don't know the audience we are targeting.

ora_43

Wed, Nov 19 2014, 4:21 pm

amother wrote:

more thoughts -
It's so hard to vent in a non-hurtful way online, but OTOH, it's so important for people to have a safe space to vent online. A lot of the "not-as-bad-as-(whatever)" vents are still about pretty important things. I mean, amother who feels bad about having a baby quickly is upset about some pretty meaningful stuff, and a lot of it isn't the kind of thing young people usually feel comfortable sharing IRL. And that's just one example.

(also, I think we should keep in mind that there hundreds of women on this board (if not more) who've suffered infertility, and only a small handful make comments along the lines of "you should be grateful." Just to put it in proportion. Overall I think posters here are showing very admirable restraint what they choose to read and to comment on.)

Fox

Wed, Nov 19 2014, 4:59 pm

This is a particular pet peeve of mine, and it is not limited to the IF issue.

I am disgusted -- yes, I literally feel nauseated -- when I hear someone start a sentence (IRL or online) with, "You can't imagine what it feels like to . . ." or "Just be glad you do/don't have XYZ problem."

While I realize most people don't intend to inflict harm when they make such comments, the sheer ignorance combined with developmentally-delayed middos makes it hard for me to share oxygen on the same planet -- let alone spend time -- with these folks.

First, as one poster already mentioned, none of us has any real clue what problems and challenges have faced others. I find this to be especially true as time goes on. I have many friends and acquaintances who don't know anything about my life prior to a couple of years ago, and this is true for many of us. While I don't go around informing people of their misapprehensions, I often think, "If only you knew what a fool you sound like" when they attempt to explain what they think I don't understand.

Second -- and most importantly, IMHO -- the practice of comparing tzoros in order to encourage yourself is the spiritual equivalent of a wooden puzzle in nursery school. Kids, in particular, need to be trained to recognize their blessings, and that sometimes that includes a sharp reminder to note that not everyone is so blessed.

But an adult who is still relying on this device? Esecially an adult who actually articulates it? Well, frankly, such an individual is a few cards short of a spiritual deck.

Rachmones is not a pizza. If you get two slices, I am not left with the box. Nor is davening a limited resource. We can feel for the woman who desperately wants a child as well as the woman who occasionally wishes she didn't. We can daven for someone who has a life-threatening illness as well as someone who has morning sickness. We can even daven for people who have problems that we consider silly. Hashem wants our tefillos; He doesn't need our input about how deserving we find the object of our prayer.

Raisin

Wed, Nov 19 2014, 4:59 pm

luppamom wrote:

So no one should ask for parenting advice ever? Or how hard it is to look after triplets? Or how to polish their silver candlesticks?

This site would close down.

amother

Wed, Nov 19 2014, 10:18 pm

Fox wrote:

I am disgusted -- yes, I literally feel nauseated -- when I hear someone start a sentence (IRL or online) with, "You can't imagine what it feels like to . . ." or "Just be glad you do/don't have XYZ problem."

First, as one poster already mentioned, none of us has any real clue what problems and challenges have faced others. I find this to be especially true as time goes on. I have many friends and acquaintances who don't know anything about my life prior to a couple of years ago, and this is true for many of us. While I don't go around informing people of their misapprehensions, I often think, "If only you knew what a fool you sound like" when they attempt to explain what they think I don't understand.

I was approached by a woman on the street the other day, who came to check out my twins in the stroller. After some rambling about twins and asking plenty personal questions, she said "I know twins are hard, but at least you don't know what it's like to have infertility!"

PS1) I know this woman - she did not go through IF afaik (unless you have kids right away one after the next and consider yourself infertile)

PS2) these twins were conceived through IVF after battling severe infertility...