Need Chizuk | Imamother

amother

Tue, Nov 25 2014, 11:11 am

14 year old daughter is a good Bais Yaakov girl who since starting high school is showing scary changes - wants to listen to secular music, watch all kinds of movies and tv shows and read any books she wants. This is not how she was raised. We're afraid of restricting everything though and pushing too hard. This is devastating to us.
Have any of you dealt with this? How did you manage?

black sheep

Tue, Nov 25 2014, 12:22 pm

She is showing some healthy independance. She was raised a certain way, and now she wants to start making her own choices. Instead of trying to supress her, why not guide her in her independance? Instead of saying all secular music is treif, you can help her choose music that is fun and catchy but not too inappropriate. You can help her choose clean movies to watch. You can help her pick books worth reading.

I think this is a very important time to teach common sense and self respect in making choices, rather than continuing to make the choices for her.

morah

Tue, Nov 25 2014, 12:49 pm

Is this sudden, or has it been creeping up for awhile? Do you know what's going on in her life? Who she's been hanging out with? Is she being a typical angsty, over-dramatic teen, or does there seem to be genuine anguish and discontent going on? Honestly, I would start by talking to her. Ask her what she's up to, show a genuine interest. Try to figure out what she's feeling. This could be a normal teen phase- purposely pushing your buttons. Or, there could be something more going on. Either way, you're going to have to pick your battles and open the lines of communication. It is also time to explain your values rather than expect simple obedience.

amother

Tue, Nov 25 2014, 1:22 pm

- +I totally feel you. I am in the exact same situation as you. My daughter is 13 and all she wants is to have electronic devices, listen to secular music and watch tv shows and all kinds of movies. I don't have tv or allow secular music at all in my home. Internet and digital games are strictly limited, censored and timed. She tends to find and gravitate towards friends who do have those.
I don"t know if I exactly what to do, but I try to explain her what the problem with secular music is and the wrong message it in sends to girls hopefully one day she will internalize my message. I am planning to get her a digital music player and download all the Maccabeats songs and videos. They sing secular tunes but the words and images are kosher. I started letting her text her friend through my cellphone where I can check the history and keep tabs on her (even if messages are erased they can be retrieved). I also found a movie rating site www.kids-in-mind.com that gives an in-depth movie review and I let her see why I don't allow most Movies. I also try to find informational shows if anyone knows of any, please let me know.

From my perspective I see her as a teenage who wants to claim independence and wants me as the mother to understand her but at the same time still needs me to set boundaries even while testing me with pushing the boundaries.
I can also use advice on this subject. Just know that you are not alone.

amother

Tue, Nov 25 2014, 1:42 pm

black sheep wrote:

OP here - She has always allowed me to screen books and now she finds it insulting that I don't trust her. I tried to explain that trust has nothing to do with it, I need to protect her, but I think her new group of friends in HS are influencing her in a big way. She feels she is old enough to be watching PG 13 movies, etc.
She is very into fantasy and doesn't want to read classics so all the reading lists recommending authors like Alcott are not helpful.

amother

Tue, Nov 25 2014, 1:43 pm

morah wrote:

New with HS.

amother

Tue, Nov 25 2014, 1:45 pm

amother wrote:

Thank you, I have been avoiding Maccabeats but will rethink it.

marina

Tue, Nov 25 2014, 1:48 pm

amother wrote:

I had this with my daughter albeit on a different level. I realized that it is, in fact, about trust. And if I trust my daughter, I have to trust her and her decision making skills until I actually notice red-flags. Once I realized that, my life got much better. And my daughter is still making good choices and I still trust her.

amother

Tue, Nov 25 2014, 1:59 pm

marina wrote:

OP: Marina, how did you know what was or wasn't a red flag? To me these are already red flags.

amother

Tue, Nov 25 2014, 5:30 pm

black sheep wrote:

OP: Being that I don't listen to non-Jewish music, how would I go about choosing music for her?

Dolly Welsh

Tue, Nov 25 2014, 5:36 pm

Change high schools?

While trusting her completely ostensibly but it does matter where you spend the whole day all the time.

Home school?

Say you wiiiiish you could keep her in school but times are hard and you don't have the money. But you will make sure she learns and has fun. Weep a little.

Fourteen is quite young. If she were sixteen one might think differently.

You need to get to be her best friend again.

Take walks with her.

As you say, she is into fantasty.

Torah is the biggest drama of all; there needs to be much more in-depth study. Maybe she is very smart and is bored stiff in this school?

Or maybe she can't keep up with the classwork, and has stopped trying, and therefore turns to something else?

One way or another you need to know more about what is going on intimately in her day and her mind.

mummiedearest

Tue, Nov 25 2014, 6:49 pm

amother wrote:

amother, why would it be ok for you to read "treif" things in order to prevent her from reading them? if there are things out there that shouldn't be read, you shouldn't read them. and that means that no one can read anything, ever. because you never know what might be inside a book until you read it. she's old enough to be aware of certain themes, to avoid certain sections in the library, to close a book if she finds it disturbing, to ask questions if something is puzzling. she's also old enough to take written material with a grain of salt. if she were 30 and living in her own home, would you want to screen her reading material? no? at what age do you think this trust begins? she's telling you that she is claiming your trust. and it IS insulting when you tell her that you want to protect her in this way.

mummiedearest

Tue, Nov 25 2014, 6:54 pm

as for music, I do and did listen to secular music. tell her she can choose her own music, but there will be rules:

1) she has to be able to hear the lyrics and understand them. I think this is very important in music choice. I find it upsetting when people sit in their cars with music blasting and the only words I can hear are offensive (to say the least). if she can hear the lyrics and understand the song, she should be able to decide whether or not the music is appropriate.

2) you retain the right to ask her to lower the volume.

3) ask that she not wear headphones in the house. this is better for her ears, and you can hear what she chooses. this leads to

4) if she'd be embarrassed for you to hear the lyrics, she really shouldn't listen to it.

she's going to be exposed to this stuff at some point or another. she'll base her music choices on her friends' tastes, you don't really need to guide her in specifics.

amother

White

Tue, Nov 25 2014, 7:01 pm

Quote:

amother, why would it be ok for you to read "treif" things in order to prevent her from reading them?

1. Because someone old enough to have a teenage daughter is pretty settled in her lifestyle (not that no one ever goes off, but it's much more rare. My DH had no problem with my attending university [as opposed to a 'frum' college program] at 30+, and my children did not question why we did not feel it was appropriate for them as young singles). The likelihood of my becoming good friends with someone in my class who would lead me astray was infinitesimally small.

2. Because in cultures such as that described by OP, we do not expose children to romantic and certainly not overt relationships. (What they learn in Chumash or Gemara has kedusha and is not considered problematic, unless Chassidish where, I believe, they don't learn those Gemaras). So a mother can read a book where there's some male-female interaction, and decide if here DD is mature enough to be exposed to it. How do we explain that to the DD? When you're a Mommy you'll be able to do the same.

mummiedearest

Tue, Nov 25 2014, 7:10 pm

amother, I wasn't even thinking of good clean romantic interest. there is plenty out there that someone sensitive would consider inappropriate for a 30+ year old mother. some things are going to present a hashkafic problem for you, regardless of age/station in life/experience. if you feel that strongly that your daughter's reading material needs to be approved, you're setting yourself up for some possible bad experiences. and if you assume that your daughter would never ask you to pre-read a book that is THAT inappropriate, I think you need to admit to yourself that you trust your daughter.

Dolly Welsh

Tue, Nov 25 2014, 11:23 pm

If you throw up, after eating, say, mango, you don't keep eating mango and more mango, and throwing up all the time, all the time.

You plainly say it's all about this particular school, no other cause.

Well, uh,

.... get her out of the school.

You will still have a curious kid on your hands but the specific influences will be diminished. It will be harder to see the same people.

You might talk to the principal. Ha ha who am I kidding.

Without having to pay tuition, at least for this one year, you could cut back on work hours and use that time to home school. A lot of posters here home school various ages including her age. There are threads about it you could look up.

sequoia

Tue, Nov 25 2014, 11:34 pm

Curiosity is the single strongest irresistible force at this age. A young teen cannot be told not to read books -- that is equivalent to torture for her.

At the same time you cannot allow everything.

Time to start trusting her more. That's step one.

Step two is to decide together how to choose books, how to screen them, etc. There are websites that provide detailed summaries, for instance.

Fantasy is very "in" now. Yes, it would be nice if she were into Louisa May Alcott and Lucy Maud Montgomery and Laura Ingalls Wilder. But she wants more immediately exciting stuff.

Keep the lines of communication open.

black sheep

Tue, Nov 25 2014, 11:41 pm

amother wrote:

OP: Being that I don't listen to non-Jewish music, how would I go about choosing music for her?

I dont think you should choose music for her. I think you should guide her in picking the music she listens to. Teach her to respect herself and all women, and to turn off any music which is degrading to women. Teach her about the difference between mature content and vulgarity. Maybe introduce her to some oldies and classics to counter the trashy pop music she is hearing with her friends.

For example,
I have recently learned that there is a song out there with the lyrics, " you know what to do with that big fat butt..... wiggle wiggle wiggle...." I had to youtube it to see for myself because I was sure my son and his friends were making it up, but no, its real. So we sat down and had a talk about respecting women, and about the definition of vulgar. My son just thought the song was really funny, he didnt think about how vulgar and disrespectful it was. Most teens are just really clueless, they need guidance. If you always say no, they will get the guidance from their friends, other clueless teens. So better give her some room to make her own choices, and she will continue coming to you for guidance.