Are yeshivish girls allowed to have dolls?

amother

Thu, Nov 27 2014, 10:06 am

Spinoff from the other thread: do homes that don't allow pictures of any women in the house allow their daughters to play with female dolls? I read that Barbie is taboo, and is that why?

dimples

Thu, Nov 27 2014, 10:16 am

Nope. Yeshivish girls are taught at a very young age that dolls are too worldly, so they can only play with their baby siblings. Guess that's another reason why their moms try to have many kids so their kids won't get bored.

amother

Thu, Nov 27 2014, 10:19 am

Pictures of women? Are we referring to family photos, clothing and lingerie catalogues, or p-rn?

Huge difference.

I know people who cut off the tip of the doll's nose or a toe to ensure it is not a "graven image", or idol-like. Don't know anyone who does not allow dolls, especially baby dolls.

Barbie is in a different category, because of her explicit curves and untznius accessories.

Then again I'm not yeshivish, but chassidish.

LiLIsraeli

Thu, Nov 27 2014, 11:07 am

dimples wrote:

I am assuming this was sarcasm.

OP, to answer your question seriously, some Rabbanim hold that dolls or any item in the form of a human being is not allowed because of the second of the aseres hadibros - that we should not have any kind of graven image. That said, most people today do not hold like this. Those who do usually will disfigure the doll in some way (cutting off the nose is the most common way) so that it should not be a perfect human.

But I've never heard of anyone not allowing their children to play with dolls at all.

amother

Thu, Nov 27 2014, 11:11 am

It's actually ironic, I know a very yeshivish family where the grandparents are super wealthy. The girls all own expensive American Girl Dolls but have the noses chopped off.

monseychick

Thu, Nov 27 2014, 11:19 am

Dolls actually present a unique problem.

If the arms falls off and you put it back , you are oiver an issur doreis of making an avoda zara according to many Rishonim

There is a lenient opinion that since children throw their dolls in the mud and sandbox, thats called being mevazeh and being mevatel its status as avoda zara..

thehalacha.com/wp-content/uploads/Vol3Issue8.pdf

amother

Thu, Nov 27 2014, 11:35 am

amother wrote:

No I'm referring to frum magazines like Binah not allowing pictures of women and wondering if the two are related. Just curious.

chani8

Thu, Nov 27 2014, 11:40 am

AFAIK, dolls are fine as long as you chip the nose, but barbies are totally out. Most of the time the dolls used are cloth dolls with stitched faces anyway, so they don't look human, rather than the rubber/plastic life like dolls.

ETA - I'm referring to very RW charedi standards, not mainstream yeshivish.

amother

Thu, Nov 27 2014, 11:54 am

amother wrote:

Wow you're really clueless.

Then we wonder why there is so much hostility. Look at the misconceptions, and naivete.

I think you're being the hostile one. I'm a bt and unfamiliar with these practices.

Thank you Lili for explaining respectfully. So with Barbie is it a fear that the brothers will see her and get ideas or you don't want young girls to be aware of curves? I guess her outfits usually aren't tznius.

amother

Thu, Nov 27 2014, 11:57 am

amother wrote:

I was NOT accusing you of being hostile. But you can't deny that hostility does not exist out there. And now I know the reason why. That's it. No offense

Happy18

Thu, Nov 27 2014, 12:02 pm

I feel like if I were a child given a doll with a cut off nose I would be freaked out. Do people really do that? Or is that just one of those things that you hear about but doesnt actually happen.

amother

Thu, Nov 27 2014, 12:02 pm

[quote="sneakermom"]I had many yeshivish and chassidishe playmates as a child. Nobody had dolls with smashed noses.[quote]

Did you check the toes? Wink

I'm chassidish. All my dolls were whole and healthy, except the one that I scribbled up with a pen when I was 4. I just posted about this practice to note that some do this. Some of my friends, to be precise.

About the heimish magazines not publishing photos... that's a completely different issue, and is more about the women not wanting their own photos splashed all over than not wanting men to see faces of other women. We don't wear burkas, right?

Although I do wonder sometimes, about not publishing photos of female politicians etc. I guess if they did it would get complicated - what if she wore an untznius dress, etc... it is simpler to avoid the whole complicated sugya in the first place.

amother

Thu, Nov 27 2014, 12:03 pm

freidasima wrote:

It is only recently (the past generation or so) that parts of the frum world have gone off the deep end.

How deep the end is is relative, I guess...
Sometimes it feels like the secular world is drowning in the shallow end.