Ferguson murder began by victim walking in gutter? Wo!

shoshanim999

Mon, Dec 01 2014, 12:22 pm

What do u mean u don't know he was a thug? The issue is whether the cop was justified in shooting him. Michael Brown was undoubtedly a bad guy who was a menace to society. He was a criminal that was asking for trouble, and trouble found him. The world is a safer place without him. This is not debatable. Did the cop have a right to shoot and kill him? The grand jury said yes.

marina

Mon, Dec 01 2014, 12:28 pm

shoshanim999 wrote:

That's nice that you get to decide whom the world doesn't need anymore. Perhaps you can encourage our police officers to go around shooting other people who make the world a more unsafe place: alleged molesters, rebbeim who allegedly beat kids, allegedly neglectful moms, men who allegedly beat their wives. After all, it's totally justifiable to just go shoot someone if we can all agree that the world will be a safer place without them. Who's on board with killing alleged molesters in cold blood?

shoshanim999

Mon, Dec 01 2014, 12:45 pm

Again, whether the shooting was justified is very debatable. I have a feeling that even if the officer acted within the confines of the law, he still could have spared this mans life. I'm just saying that I have no sympathy for Michael Brown because he was a vile human being who used his size to bully and intimidate people, and it caught up with him.

southernbubby

Mon, Dec 01 2014, 1:01 pm

shoshanim999 wrote:

He was only 18. He might have lived a life of crime and eventually used his size to harm and bully others but what if he would have turned his life around? It seems to me that one of his biggest problems was immaturity. Some children simply are not adults at 18. He needed help growing up.

southernbubby

Mon, Dec 01 2014, 1:03 pm

[quote="marina"]That's nice that you get to decide whom the world doesn't need anymore. Perhaps you can encourage our police officers to go around shooting other people who make the world a more unsafe place: alleged molesters, rebbeim who allegedly beat kids, allegedly neglectful moms, men who allegedly beat their wives. After all, it's totally justifiable to just go shoot someone if we can all agree that the world will be a safer place without them. Who's on board with killing alleged molesters in cold blood?[/quote]

Probably most people would if they could. We don't want to break the law or go to jail but we are not exactly praying for the good health and long life of child molesters. Maybe their mothers are.

southernbubby

Mon, Dec 01 2014, 1:22 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

Marina and Barbara, I understand a lot more now about indictments, etc. Thank you for clarifying.
What can be done so that a group of people don't feel so impotent that all they can do in reaction is riot, and engage in truly self-destructive action? Not just self-destructive because of bad PR but because they're damaging their own infrastructure in the process?

They need to have active police/community liaisons so that there are involved citizens coordinating between law enforcement and the community. Community members can be involved in community watch groups and build community involvement with block parties, 4th of July parades and other activities. Community members can attend open board meetings of their communities so that they have a say in how crimes are prevented or laws are enforced. All of that is out there because one of my neighbors is the mayor of our city and has asked me to get involved in this stuff. It required being at each meeting and I leave out of town a lot so I couldn't do it but many Jews do come as well as many blacks. Basically there are not too many barriers for community involvement if a person is interested.

Barbara

Mon, Dec 01 2014, 1:25 pm

shoshanim999 wrote:

He was?

Hmmm.

At the time that he was killed, he had never been charged with a crime as an adult. Nor was he ever charged as a juvenile with what would have been Class A or Class B felonies as an adult. It is not known whether he was ever arrested or tried for any other crime as a juvenile, because those records are sealed.

"Strong arm robbery." You see the video? Its basically shoplifting, except the clerk tried to stop him, and Brown shoves the clerk away. The clerk doesn't even fall to the ground. And he doesn't call 911; another customer did.

Heaven help us if that makes him a vile human being for whom we have no sympathy. Shall I confess that when we were about 9, my friend Michael and I stole something from the 5 & 10. I don't remember what. Baruch hashem no one realized that we were vile human beings and shot us.

DrMom

Mon, Dec 01 2014, 1:31 pm

Barbara wrote:

But the guy was WHITE, so he clearly wasn't a "thug." Because we all know what "thug" means.

I don't associate the word "thug"with any particular race. "Thug" to me conjures up an image of a large, physically dangerous criminal who threatens others with violence. Like d!ck Tracey villians or 1940s Chicago gangsters with fedoras and sawed-off machine guns.

But maybe I'm just old.

I do associate the word almost exclusively with males, so maybe I'm also sexist.

Barbara

Mon, Dec 01 2014, 1:40 pm

DrMom wrote:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/a......html

And while it doesn't need to be said, I completely believe that you didn't associate it with that.

shoshanim999

Mon, Dec 01 2014, 1:43 pm

yes he was a criminal. U conveniently leave out of ur little story that part about him fighting with a cop. That makes him a criminal. I don't advocate cops shooting and killing anyone, be it child molesters, rapists,ect. Thats not how the justice system works. I'm saying that if while attempting to apprehend one of these criminals, things escalate because the criminal is getting violent with law enforcement, then a have no sympathy for the consequences that befall the criminal.

Barbara

Mon, Dec 01 2014, 2:02 pm

shoshanim999 wrote:

My "little story"? Oh, you mean the actual and undisputed facts.

In my "little story" -- you know, what happened -- Brown wasn't killed when he was grappling with the officer. Brown was probably shot once, in the thumb, at that point, and then ran away. Still okay to shoot him? What about the fact that he was 153 feet -- half a football field -- from Wilson's vehicle when he was killed.

Anyway, in the video that Marina adverted to, you must believe that the police were 100% justified in beating the shirtless man who pushed the police, refused to be cuffed, and fought them. If not, please explain the difference, other than the fact that he was inches from the police, while Wilson was yards from Brown.

ETA -- you said Brown used his size to bully people -- and the only incident you can refer to is his tussle with Wilson. You also said that it "caught up with him." Unless you mean "it took 10 seconds to catch up with him," I'm waiting for the litany of things that you can demonstrate that he bullied people or committed crimes before that day.

Cmon folks. Your saying it doesn't make it true. You want to make a factual allegation, back it up with information from the mainstream media.

shoshanim999

Mon, Dec 01 2014, 2:17 pm

I don't see what relevance the distance of Wilson's vehicle has to do with anything. According to Wilson he was pursuing Brown when Brown turned around and started charging him. What does this have to do with where Wilson's car was parked? Theoretically had the pursuit went on for 5 miles would u argue the shooting was 5 miles from the cop car! who cares? Also, u can call it shoplifting, but the arrogance displayed by Brown during that incident was shocking. I didn't know I shared the planet with people like that. He doesn't bother slipping the item into his pocket or quickly running out the door. No, he just grabs what he wants and casually strolls toward the exit with his stolen property without a care in the world. When the store owner confronts him he just shoves him out of the way. How dare the owner try to block him from exiting the store with the stolen goods! Yes, I'm sure Brown is a big teddy bear and had the owner really attempted to wrestle the stolen goods from Brown, I'm sure Brown would have been very polite and respectful about it and handed back the stolen goods without things violently escalating.

Barbara

Mon, Dec 01 2014, 2:31 pm

shoshanim999 wrote:

Oh, yes, he was an arrogant "thug" -- something Wilson couldn't have known -- so he deserved to die.

Just like that arrogant guy in Marina's video.

The distance from the car is relevant to see if Wilson's story makes sense. To guestimate the distance Wilson shot from, which is not known. And to demonstrate that the police were lying, since they consistently said he was killed 35 FEET from Wilson's cruiser. But hey, what's a few little "white" lies when you've rid the world of an arrogant "thug."