Home
Log in / Sign Up
    Private Messages   Advanced Search   Rules   New User Guide   FAQ   Advertise   Contact Us  
Forum -> Parenting our children -> School age children
Pulling child out of yeshiva
1  2  Next



Post new topic   Reply to topic View latest: 24h 48h 72h

amother


 

Post Mon, Dec 01 2014, 1:24 pm
Has anyone pulled their child out of yeshiva and put them in public school for the sake of their education and everyone's mental health? My 10 yo comes home complaining of all the work they have to do (there is a lot for 5th grade) and between the dual curriculum he doesn't seem to be able to handle it well. He's been having difficulties since third grade and we've just muddled through every year. This year we're finally at the point where my husband and I are thinking that maybe the dual curriculum is just not for everyone. In our case he's just not going to be a Torah scholar and it's more important for him to feel that he can do well at something rather than constantly feeling frustrated. My issue is outside influences and how will he get what he needs in terms of a Jewish education - even at the basic level. He has no learning deficits or ADHD it's just the stress is taking over the whole household. He's seeing a therapist now to work on trying to get him motivated to do his hw (English and Hebrew) but he's getting to the point where he just doesn't care to do anything.
Back to top

Dolly Welsh




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 01 2014, 1:36 pm
In general a kid does not like to be different. Therefore he will adjust to being like the kids in the new school. You may have a different kind of mindset altogether, going on, therefore.

Maybe he could be in a more modernish but still Jewish school?

Could you home school? Could he need a break from an institutional setting altogether?

There are a lot of old threads here about homeschooling, including about both Torah and secular learning. If you read them you will get the atmosphere and the possibilities.
Back to top

justcallmeima




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 01 2014, 1:49 pm
Listen to your heart. You are his mother and you know what he needs.Yeshiva is not for everyone. Know that whatever you do, there will be people who criticize for it. Tune that noise out and do what you know as his mother is the right thing. Hugs.
Back to top

amother


 

Post Mon, Dec 01 2014, 1:49 pm
He'll have no problem making friends and hopefully separating his "school" friends from "shabbos" friends from the neighborhood and shul. Homeschooling is not an option - I work FT and I couldn't take on that task and responsibility. Plus he needs the socialization - I couldn't pull that rug from under him. My first step is talking to the school - although they have t been much help in the past but I at least have to do that to say I've tried it. I can't think about HS yet bc I don't want to send him to the public HS but maybe coming into a Jewish Hs they would put him in the lowest tract (I know my HS had a tract like that).
Back to top

Jewishmom8




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 01 2014, 1:53 pm
I say speak to the yeshiva. tell them that you want to keep him at the yeshiva but its too much for him.
maybe he can opt out of tests in the hebrew dept but he can sit in the classes and learn and grow at his own pace?
maybe that can be an option?
Back to top

amother


 

Post Mon, Dec 01 2014, 1:56 pm
Jewishmom8 wrote:
I say speak to the yeshiva. tell them that you want to keep him at the yeshiva but its too much for him.
maybe he can opt out of tests in the hebrew dept but he can sit in the classes and learn and grow at his own pace?
maybe that can be an option?


I like that idea. But it's interesting - he's doing really well on the tests. It's the written homework that he can't manage. That's one of the things were working with the therapist on - getting him to do his work. Is it laziness, lack of motivation or he just can't do it. The tests are all memorizing which he's good at.
Back to top

Dolly Welsh




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 01 2014, 2:11 pm
Could it be manual dexterity?

Could it be vision?

Does he have a cleared-off desk, a professional quality padded desk chair, and excellent lighting?

Does he need reading glasses?

I am personally fond of the lamps with a magnifying glass in them.

http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UT.....rol_b

Get more than one. And have a standing lamp in his room also.

A guy who has bothered to memorize the material, which the tests show, is interested in the material somehow, and shouldn't be in public school.

A guy who has memorized the material isn't lazy and isn't unmotivated.

Anyway there is no "lazy" not at that age certainly. The word has no pedagogic meaning.
Back to top

Iymnok




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 01 2014, 2:31 pm
After a long day he may be incapable of sitting down too even more work. Maybe work out a special homework situation tailor made for him.
Back to top

Bruria




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 01 2014, 2:33 pm
I agree, maybe talk to the yeshiva and ask them if there is a way that he could do all the homework at his own pace.
Back to top

amother


 

Post Mon, Dec 01 2014, 2:36 pm
I wouldn't pull my child out of a Jewish environment because of homework. I would work out a more relaxed homework load with the school, or even individual teachers, and do whatever it takes to keep my child in a setting that's conducive to his growth as a Jew.

You are his mother. You can figure out a way to make this work. Good luck!
Back to top

5*Mom




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 01 2014, 2:43 pm
amother wrote:
I like that idea. But it's interesting - he's doing really well on the tests. It's the written homework that he can't manage. That's one of the things were working with the therapist on - getting him to do his work. Is it laziness, lack of motivation or he just can't do it. The tests are all memorizing which he's good at.

Maybe it's stupid busy work? Maybe he feels it's a waste of time because it is a waste of time? Just a thought.
Back to top

MaBelleVie




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 01 2014, 2:52 pm
I would try to figure out why he isn't managing the homework.
Back to top

Dolly Welsh




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 01 2014, 2:55 pm
Interesting idea, 5*Mom.

OP, a guy whose mind memorizes well may not see the point of writing it all down again. That might be a perfectly valid and good thing for others, who are less sharp. Just not for him.

He might be TOO smart for some of this. Not not smart enough, too smart.
Back to top

Barbara




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 01 2014, 3:15 pm
amother wrote:
Has anyone pulled their child out of yeshiva and put them in public school for the sake of their education and everyone's mental health? My 10 yo comes home complaining of all the work they have to do (there is a lot for 5th grade) and between the dual curriculum he doesn't seem to be able to handle it well. He's been having difficulties since third grade and we've just muddled through every year. This year we're finally at the point where my husband and I are thinking that maybe the dual curriculum is just not for everyone. In our case he's just not going to be a Torah scholar and it's more important for him to feel that he can do well at something rather than constantly feeling frustrated. My issue is outside influences and how will he get what he needs in terms of a Jewish education - even at the basic level. He has no learning deficits or ADHD it's just the stress is taking over the whole household. He's seeing a therapist now to work on trying to get him motivated to do his hw (English and Hebrew) but he's getting to the point where he just doesn't care to do anything.


We considered this, repeatedly, over the years.

IMNSHO, you're doing everything right. You're dealing with the school with respect to any possible academic issues. With a therapist with respect to any emotional issues. And giving your son all of the love and respect that he needs.

Talk to the therapist. Even if he does terrible in limudei kodesh, will taking him out of the school hurt his self esteem even further?

Obviously, I think that talking to the school is a good idea. If homework is a big issue for him, can he be given modified homework this year -- less homework, with a longer time to complete. Can he be excused from one subject -- the elementary school we sent to selected Navi -- and be with a learning specialist, or even just sit in the office and do homework during that period.

If it looks like this is a temporary problem, make sure the school knows that pulling out is temporary.

You mentioned high school elsewhere. I don't know what flavor of Judaism you are. But as to MO, yes, there are high schools that offer "lower" kodesh learning tracks, and even offer all kodesh subject mostly in English.

Hang in there. I have a strong, strong feeling that whatever path you choose, everything will work out in the end.
Back to top

amother


 

Post Mon, Dec 01 2014, 3:46 pm
Barbara wrote:
We considered this, repeatedly, over the years.

IMNSHO, you're doing everything right. You're dealing with the school with respect to any possible academic issues. With a therapist with respect to any emotional issues. And giving your son all of the love and respect that he needs.

Talk to the therapist. Even if he does terrible in limudei kodesh, will taking him out of the school hurt his self esteem even further?

Obviously, I think that talking to the school is a good idea. If homework is a big issue for him, can he be given modified homework this year -- less homework, with a longer time to complete. Can he be excused from one subject -- the elementary school we sent to selected Navi -- and be with a learning specialist, or even just sit in the office and do homework during that period.

If it looks like this is a temporary problem, make sure the school knows that pulling out is temporary.

You mentioned high school elsewhere. I don't know what flavor of Judaism you are. But as to MO, yes, there are high schools that offer "lower" kodesh learning tracks, and even offer all kodesh subject mostly in English.

Hang in there. I have a strong, strong feeling that whatever path you choose, everything will work out in the end.


I agree with you that pulling him out will be a severe detriment to his self esteem. He overheard us talking about it last night and it just broke him into tears to think that we would pull him out (even with the thought of not having to do the LK!). I have mixed feelings about him not having to do the work that everyone has to do bc to me it's a form of manipulation on his part (if I am going on the assumption that there are no learning issues, etc). Deep down I think he just really doesn't want to *do* the work and would rather play. But eventually that kind of thinking has to stop and he has to face the consequences. But where are the consequences? Yeshivas don't have detention. I have yet to see any sort of consequence for any type of behavior that is not physical (that's another subject entirely!). What's the worst that will happen if he doesn't do his work? I think I've asked and they haven't left anyone back for not completing their homework. He *gets it* in class but can't get it when it comes to homework. Take away tv and iPod and screen time? He'll play with a pillow and a dust bunny!
Back to top

5*Mom




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 01 2014, 3:51 pm
amother wrote:
I agree with you that pulling him out will be a severe detriment to his self esteem. He overheard us talking about it last night and it just broke him into tears to think that we would pull him out (even with the thought of not having to do the LK!). I have mixed feelings about him not having to do the work that everyone has to do bc to me it's a form of manipulation on his part (if I am going on the assumption that there are no learning issues, etc). Deep down I think he just really doesn't want to *do* the work and would rather play. But eventually that kind of thinking has to stop and he has to face the consequences. But where are the consequences? Yeshivas don't have detention. I have yet to see any sort of consequence for any type of behavior that is not physical (that's another subject entirely!). What's the worst that will happen if he doesn't do his work? I think I've asked and they haven't left anyone back for not completing their homework. He *gets it* in class but can't get it when it comes to homework. Take away tv and iPod and screen time? He'll play with a pillow and a dust bunny!

Have you tried to do the homework yourself? Does it make sense? Does it have value?

What is it that he *doesn't get*?
Back to top

MaBelleVie




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 01 2014, 4:01 pm
What makes you think he will be motivated to complete the full workload in PS?
Back to top

amother


 

Post Mon, Dec 01 2014, 4:01 pm
I've done his homework - most of it is spitback - answering questions straight from a text (for LK). English is standard homework. He definitely gets overwhelmed and we're working on strategies - granted they take all night if these strategies are to be followed to the letter. Which isn't fair to him. When is there time to be a kid if his spaced out hw takes all night to do? If I space out his hw with breaks in bw he'll be doing hw/projects until 8-8:30 on some nights (he gets home at 4).
Back to top

amother


 

Post Mon, Dec 01 2014, 4:05 pm
MaBelleVie wrote:
What makes you think he will be motivated to complete the full workload in PS?


I'm only betting on the fact that there won't be the additional stress of LK homework or LK projects that come due. 6 subjects vs 10. I'm not saying there won't be struggles but once we're done with the English part there's no "brain switchover" to do Hebrew. But you're right there is no guarantee. Maybe I should try that for a week at school when I talk to the teachers - try the no hw/tests and see what happens.
Back to top

5*Mom




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 01 2014, 4:11 pm
amother wrote:
I've done his homework - most of it is spitback - answering questions straight from a text (for LK). English is standard homework. He definitely gets overwhelmed and we're working on strategies - granted they take all night if these strategies are to be followed to the letter. Which isn't fair to him. When is there time to be a kid if his spaced out hw takes all night to do? If I space out his hw with breaks in bw he'll be doing hw/projects until 8-8:30 on some nights (he gets home at 4).

Something is not adding up here. You say he does well on his tests and from what you describe, the tests are the same format as the homework. It doesn't make sense for him to have no trouble with the one and all that much trouble with the other. Scratching Head
Back to top
Page 1 of 2 1  2  Next Recent Topics




Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Parenting our children -> School age children

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Child Tooth Ache- Pediatric Dentist
by Bruria
2 Yesterday at 8:17 pm View last post
Podiatrist for ingrown toenail on child
by amother
1 Yesterday at 3:23 pm View last post
Yeshiva area babysitter small group willing to pay
by amother
0 Tue, Mar 26 2024, 7:12 pm View last post
If you successfully healed your child's gut
by amother
10 Mon, Mar 25 2024, 6:32 pm View last post
Far Rockaway -School hours for Siach/yeshiva Katana/Darchei
by amother
8 Mon, Mar 25 2024, 10:15 am View last post