Which would you choose for your child?

shalhevet

Thu, May 24 2007, 6:31 pm

If you had to choose one of the following for your child, which would you choose:

To be makpid on all mitzvos and poor (receiving tzedoko)

or

to be shomer shabbos, not particular about all the mitzvos but wealthy?

Ruchel

Thu, May 24 2007, 6:47 pm

I'm not sure I get it.

If you means rich but keeping mitzvos on a "not intense" level VS very machmir on every mitzva but poor, I choose the first. If you mean rich but only shomer shabbes VS keeps every mitzva but poor, I have to choose the second although I would hate it if I wasn't able to raise my children as normal functioning people who can make a living.....

Motek

Fri, May 25 2007, 1:48 pm

neither

I'm in favor of being frum, healthy and well-off to minimally observant, sickly and poor.

I don't want to limit G-d, so to say.

Ruchel

Fri, May 25 2007, 1:52 pm

I think we were the only ones to answer because we are not afraid of controversy... I was sure it would turn into a fight..

mumsy23

Fri, May 25 2007, 2:24 pm

I think many people didn't answer because it is a silly question. Why would you even think about something like that? As motek said, I want them to be shomer mitzvos and wealthy and healthy, happy etc... Why do I have to decide which I want more?

Ruchel

Fri, May 25 2007, 2:28 pm

No idea, I'm not the OP!
But it's just a theoretical question. People like to ask them sometimes, just to see.

mumsy23

Fri, May 25 2007, 2:30 pm

I think its a morbid/pointless topic. JMO.

Mitzvahmom

Fri, May 25 2007, 2:36 pm

I donot like the choices..

It's as if to say if your makpid on all mitzvos, that you must be poor (receiving tzedoko)

Or if your shomer shabbos, not particular about all the mitzvos that more than likely your wealthy??

I think you can both... Makpid and living comfortably..

A woman said to me the other day, "B"H your busy and your life is full of activities. Imagine if your a m illiionare and had nothing to di in life but keep house, wouldn't u feel empty?"

I just responded I guess.. Really I was thinking, if I had even half a million worries would be so much less. But my life is rich, and yes I do sometimes need foodstamps.

I just do not like the choices

Ruchel

Fri, May 25 2007, 2:40 pm

Yes it is kind of morbid, like the stealing vs gay topic.

amother

Sat, May 26 2007, 4:05 pm

Are you comparing yourself to someone else?

mimivan

Sat, May 26 2007, 7:28 pm

Nu, isn't life difficult enough with out putting ourselves into these hypothetical quicksands about our kids? I mean, this is the second thread like this. Enough already!

Next there is going to be a poll like
Would you rather your son be:

a. A Rosh Yeshivah who cheats on giving maaser
b. A disco owner who is shomer Shabbos and puts on tefillin
c. An apparently fully observant Charedi Ben Torah who sometimes wears women's underwear but does teshuvah (but does it again...)
d. Shomer Shabbos, Kashrus, and TM (Taharas HaMispacha, not Transendental Meditiation) baal Tzedakah who does alot of maasim tovim but goes to the Ice Capades and sometimes smokes grass...

Hmm..wonder why I can't decide Rolling Eyes

Lechatchila Ariber

Sun, May 27 2007, 12:01 am

I couldn't vote.
my sentiments are the same as motek's and as that option wasn't available I couldn't vote.

shalhevet

Sun, May 27 2007, 5:33 am

I started the thread to open the floor to discussion about various issues. Maybe I wasn't clear enough, or maybe I was and people don't like discussing them.

I don't feel this question is anything like the lesbianism/ stealing one for example. It is obvious in that thread that we give our kids chinuch not to get to either situation.

However in the question here there are many things we do/ choices we make in chinuch which will at least change the odds on the results. Every time we send our kids to a particular kind of yeshiva/ school/ college etc we are having some influence on the outcome to this question. Every time a mother says to her child 'Wow, Shimmy's Abba is such a Talmid Chacham' or 'Isn't it wonderful that Abba is at a shiur right now' or alternatively 'Wow, Shimmy's Abba makes so much money' or 'That's wonderful Abba, that you closed the deal', we are making the decision of which one our child will be. Obviously, there are no guarantees and we all know the BT who became so frum and the FFB child who spent his whole life in yeshiva until he threw it all away. Clearly some people will have both yiras shamayim and wealth and others, neither, but the question is what we are putting emphasis on at home.

Of course we all daven that our children should have parnassa, should be sucessful and healthy and live long, full lives of Torah and yiras Shamayim. But we are often faced with choices which cannot marry all the options.

I grew up in a MO community in England and I can tell you that many of the Shomer Shabbos families we knew thought nothing of sending their children to public schools. (For those who don't know a public school in England is the ultimate in private education). They were sure that their children would stay frum - they'd get it from home - and, meanwhile, they'd be having the very best education that England had to offer and would be able to 'get on'.
Twenty/ thirty years on I know that some did stay frum but others didn't and even married out (we are talking about Shomer Shabbos families). Believe me, those parents thought they could have it all - they didn't do it so as to have non-frum children who were wealthy. But the implied message they gave their children was that education and/or money was more important than Yiddishkeit.
What is the message we are giving our children?

Seraph

Sun, May 27 2007, 5:51 am

If I was FORCED to choose, I would choose that my kid is makpid on mitzvos and poor. Because its olam haba that matters, not the quality of living here in this world.

If you're poor but yarei shamayim, at least through any difficulty you have Hashem. But money is no comfort if you don't have a connection with Hashem in your day to day life.

Elle

Sun, May 27 2007, 5:58 am

I dont think its relevant any more since today you can get a decent jewish education in most places. And why be so drastic - poor and frum , rich and not?
Cant I be rich, educated and frum? Or at least strive to be?

mimivan

Sun, May 27 2007, 6:06 am

Right, b'h there are so many more opportunities for making parnasa nowadays and part-time (I.e. telecommuting) that makes life easier for collel wives (at least those who are allowed to use the Web) and men who learn in collel part-time! I don't think this is like the bad old days when you had to choose whether you wanted a job or to be Shomer Shabbos!

B'h, I think we are getting past these kinds of choices these days!

greenfire

Sun, May 27 2007, 6:06 am

mimivan wrote:

I'm having trouble choosing too ... but ... B sounds FUN ... Nervous

Motek

Sun, May 27 2007, 5:32 pm

shalhevet wrote:

I don't feel this question is anything like the lesbianism/ stealing one for example.

I think it's like the thread - which would you pick, child with illness or child off the derech, uh, neither

Quote:

the question is what we are putting emphasis on at home.

I like the point without the poll question.

Quote:

(For those who don't know a public school in England is the ultimate in private education).

digression: why on earth is a private school called a public school? Confused

Raisin

Sun, May 27 2007, 6:06 pm

Quote:

digression: why on earth is a private school called a public school?

I think these schools were started in the middle ages, (and before) when going to such a school was the alternative to being educated privately at home by tutors. They are now the most prestigious and expensive schools you could go to.