dating a guy who does not have a civil divorce

mille

Mon, Dec 08 2014, 7:17 pm

If it's really meant to be, what is the harm in waiting until the civil divorce is final? If this is a dealbreaker for him (he's not willing to wait), I would consider that a red flag...

vintagebknyc

Mon, Dec 08 2014, 7:52 pm

amother wrote:

I know a woman who got a get before her civil divorce. The civil divorce took longer and there were issues over child custody. A few months after her get she began dating another man, and they ended up getting halachically married before the civil divorce was finalized. The judge in the divorce case was so appalled that she got remarried before her divorce was finalized that he gave full custody of her children to her ex-husband - who was now living in another state! It was a disaster for her. She and her new husband were both employed and living in their original city, but she barely saw her kids. In the end, they had to pick up and move to her ex-husband's state to be closer to her kids for regular visitation.

It's best to wait until religious and civil divorce is finalized before remarrying.

I don't believe this. please don't take it snarkily, but nothing about this story rings true

smilingmom

Mon, Dec 08 2014, 8:02 pm

I am not sure what the question is.
If you are married, you should not be dating someone else.
Every state has laws against being married to two people at the same time... It's called bigamy.

Mimisinger

Mon, Dec 08 2014, 8:53 pm

I seriously don't understand this conversation. It's not just the civil divorce that the guy needs to get. He got DIVORCED! If it's not the 4 years that someone else mentioned, like with dividing lots of assets and children, then I don't understand why someone can't wait a year from when they are divorced to live by themselves, take care of themselves, HEAL, get therapy, and THEN date and find someone.

I understand our culture, but this is just ridiculous. Now, I have a friend who remarried quickly after terrible marriage that was just a couple of years long, but I wonder if that's so healthy? B"H it worked out for her, but it sounds like your friend doesn't know what's going on and she should. Don't be so desperate. She needs to find out what really is going on.

amother

Mon, Dec 08 2014, 9:12 pm

vintagebknyc wrote:

I don't believe this. please don't take it snarkily, but nothing about this story rings true

Of course I can't prove it, but this story is 100% true as told to me by the wife - but the story happened about 18 years ago. The judge felt like she was being devious and trying to buck the legal system by getting married to another man at the same time she was still married to her ex-husband. He let his personal revulsion at the situation influence his custody decision. I have no idea what happened after she moved to the new state - I would imagine that she would have gone back to try to have the custody arrangements renegotiated. The point is, her haste cost her custody, the expense of moving, and the expense of most likely having to go back to court to gain back custody or partial custody.

SRS

Mon, Dec 08 2014, 9:47 pm

It is amazing that in a world where we don't generally want our children to meet their spouses independently for the most part and prefer some type of go-between, references, or a full blown investigation that when it comes to 2nd marriages dating before a completely finalized civil divorce isn't just completely past nisht.

amother

Mon, Dec 08 2014, 10:21 pm

This would be a huge red flag for me. The waiting time AFAIK is at longest one year from first filing to final declaration. If you have been divorced, it is worth taking that time to heal, to maybe do some introspection or therapy to find out what went wrong and what you might need to change going forward.

My dad was ALWAYS dating before his divorces were final. He's on his fourth wife. It would be his fifth wife (or sixth or whatever) but his current wife is a total doormat.

amother

Tue, Dec 09 2014, 12:33 am

SRS wrote:

Myself and this friend are not part of the shidduch dating world. No go betweens and all of that. So its a different outlook on dating/courting. I am not saying she is correct, but there is no shidduch dating here. She met him on her own. Wouldnt have it any other way. (I am the original poster)

amother

Tue, Dec 09 2014, 12:35 am

Mimisinger wrote:

Imasinger, I agree with you. I dont know how long the guy has actually been separated and I dont know the actual facts about the divorce, but he is dating my friend, a good friend, and to me, dating before you actually have a divorce in your hand is a big red flag.

amother

Tue, Dec 09 2014, 12:37 am

smilingmom wrote:

I am not sure what the question is.
If you are married, you should not be dating someone else.
Every state has laws against being married to two people at the same time... It's called bigamy.

thats what I said. she hemmed and hawed and there was no committed answer Sad

I jus thope all ends well, thats all.

amother

Tue, Dec 09 2014, 12:41 am

In ny you have to be separated a whole year before you can get a civil divorce. Most divorcees that I know without kids started dating before their legal divorce. I started dating right before I got my legal divorce. That said I do think it's healthier to not get remarried immediately it's good to have some time to mourn reflect and then move on.

DrMom

Tue, Dec 09 2014, 2:30 am

smilingmom wrote:

I am not sure what the question is.
If you are married, you should not be dating someone else.
Every state has laws against being married to two people at the same time... It's called bigamy.

But they're not married -- they're dating.

If he already gave the get and is in the process of getting a civil divorce and has no children from the previous marriage, then I don't see a "huge red flag."

There are too many details we don't know:
- Who left whom?
- How many years they were married?
- How long have they been apart? (Did he give the get a year ago and the civil divorce is simply dragging on? Or did he give the get last week and they haven't even filed the papers for a civil divorce?)
- Etc.

Depending on the answers, you might caution your friend to lower her expectations about marriage. He may still be healing, etc.

amother

Tue, Dec 09 2014, 3:00 am

DrMom wrote:

to your wuestions:
she left him
I dont know how long they were married
it was a marriage of convinience I was told, sort of like a green card marriage (on her part)
and I dont know when the get was given.

SRS

Tue, Dec 09 2014, 7:33 am

Ruchel wrote:

If there is something blocking, some rabbis may give the ok for a chuppa. I've seen the case. Let her discuss it with a rav first?

I'd say this dater doesn't need a Rav first, but a lawyer. She can find a Rabbi to give an OK. But she better understand the implications of entering into a marriage without a marriage license and only a kesubah.

smilingmom

Tue, Dec 09 2014, 7:45 am

amother wrote:

DRL236(7). Irretrievable breakdown of marriage for six months.

True, it's a new law, just wanted to update you.

SRS

Tue, Dec 09 2014, 10:33 am

Ruchel wrote:

If it's anything like here, the implications are like two singles living in couple together.

And living together without the benefits of marriage is a pretty bad deal for women. And once they have a halachic marriage, they may never both to legally marry. There are so many legal benefits to marriage and protections that are not provided people shacking up.

While I understand that the halachic marriage IS the marriage in the eyes of Hashem, there is something very binding for a couple to be connected civilly. I think it is for the betterment of the marriage to be bound together most fully. . . . and it is a heck of a lot harder to walk away when you aren't just cohabitating.

Ruchel

Tue, Dec 09 2014, 11:12 am

I'm all for a civil.

I do know a couple (MO) who didn't get married civilliy (until years later?) so she would still get students benefits (basically they pretended, I think, that she was living still at her parents, and he was a live in boyfriend).

I know a JPF (?) couple, the man was civilly married to a non Jew who wouldn't let go, and it took many years to settle it, and in the mean time he had married halachically another woman.

I know a lite yeshivishe/lite heimish (?) woman, I discovered she is not civilly married and gets single mom benefits. She doesn't seem to mind legally being a Miss with kids!

That said, I'll say it again, I'm all for civil.

amother

Tue, Dec 09 2014, 8:35 pm

I was told very recently that if you have just a GET, it's good enough to be able to remarry in the state of Florida. Haven't checked it out though. wonder if it's true?