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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
Should Jewish schools teach shop?
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 08 2014, 12:23 pm
http://blogs.timesofisrael.com.....lass/

Here is a link to an article stating that it is just as important for our kids to have a chance to be plumbers as it is to become hedge-fund managers.
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debsey




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 08 2014, 12:32 pm
southernbubby wrote:
http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/in-search-of-shop-class/

Here is a link to an article stating that it is just as important for our kids to have a chance to be plumbers as it is to become hedge-fund managers.


I WISH. I have a son who is so talented with his hands, I wish he'd have an hour a day to really excel.......Not gonna happen in Lakewood in my lifetime, though.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 08 2014, 12:53 pm
In France there are dozens (!) of varied tracks. In theory. In practice, you have to have the right one near you- some travel 1h30 every way (!) to go to it and some simply don't have their track of choice.
But Jewish schools mostly just don't have the more "manual" tracks and even some less valued intellectual ones (like, literary Sad ).
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Scrabble123




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 08 2014, 12:58 pm
I had a work working class in school. I made beautiful things, including working on a door that was used for the library. I made a stunning jewelry box out of a plank of wood. We sawed saws, sand paper, etc. etc. It was a fabulous class although many students were failed because you have to be mature and behave appropriately around dangerous machinery. There was a zero tolerance rule in force because of that. Our teacher didn't have a middle finger because he cut it off with a saw in some accident years before he started teaching.
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saw50st8




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 08 2014, 12:58 pm
I think it's an excellent idea. It gives kids the opportunity to explore hands on training for career choice and just generally learn how to fix things.
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nyer1




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 08 2014, 1:19 pm
doesn't necessarily have to be a regular class every day in school, but I think that the frum community in general should start doing a better job in educating the general population with the notion that 'trade' jobs CAN be extremely financially lucrative, and kollel or college is not for everyone. there are so many different routes to go in. while a doctor holds a very prestigious position, plumbers can be just as financially successful, without the financial burden of student loans.
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Volunteer




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 08 2014, 1:19 pm
I agree that it's a good idea. As a teacher, I definitely think the one-size-fits-all education yeshivas tend to provide fails to meet everyone's needs, and fails to help all children fulfill their potential.

I use a lot of hands-on methodologies in my class, and many students excel using tactile/spatial learning. Some kids find that they are very good at using their hands, so they develop confidence and a sense of capability they never had before. I've had students who thought they were "dumb," but changed their minds when they discovered that they were good at something they didn't know they were good at!

Hashem told Yaakov avinu that a "[gentile] vekahal non jews (a nation made up of a group of sub-nations, according to Rav Hirsch)" would come from his descendants. And, the 12 tribes Yaakov fathered each turned out with a different specialty. Some were scholars, merchants, soldiers, farmers, craftsmen, etc... Hashem wanted a whole rainbow of talents to fill the ranks of am yisrael, because no one has a monopoly on His presence or His Torah. That's why we're like one body, because each soul is unique and important.

Rav Hirsch has a theory about why Yaakov and Eisav came out so different. He proposed that despite having different proclivities, their parents tried to raise them both the same. The "yoshev ohalim" education worked for Yaakov, but it seriously backfired for Eisav, because it could never fit with his "derech". Maybe if Eisav had shop class, he would have turned out as the righteous man he could have been!
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Volunteer




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 08 2014, 1:21 pm
Volunteer wrote:
I agree that it's a good idea. As a teacher, I definitely think the one-size-fits-all education yeshivas tend to provide fails to meet everyone's needs, and fails to help all children fulfill their potential.

I use a lot of hands-on methodologies in my class, and many students excel using tactile/spatial learning. Some kids find that they are very good at using their hands, so they develop confidence and a sense of capability they never had before. I've had students who thought they were "dumb," but changed their minds when they discovered that they were good at something they didn't know they were good at!

Hashem told Yaakov avinu that a "[gentile] vekahal non jews (a nation made up of a group of sub-nations, according to Rav Hirsch)" would come from his descendants. And, the 12 tribes Yaakov fathered each turned out with a different specialty. Some were scholars, merchants, soldiers, farmers, craftsmen, etc... Hashem wanted a whole rainbow of talents to fill the ranks of am yisrael, because no one has a monopoly on His presence or His Torah. That's why we're like one body, because each soul is unique and important.

Rav Hirsch has a theory about why Yaakov and Eisav came out so different. He proposed that despite having different proclivities, their parents tried to raise them both the same. The "yoshev ohalim" education worked for Yaakov, but it seriously backfired for Eisav, because it could never fit with his "derech". Maybe if Eisav had shop class, he would have turned out as the righteous man he could have been!



Hee hee! The automatic censor took the initiative to "translate" my quote from the Torah. I'll leave it as is for your amusement...
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Dolly Welsh




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 08 2014, 1:39 pm
Yes. They should. Some won't be much good at it, but life skills such as using simple tools are good things to learn in school.

Volunteer, that is an amazing post you wrote there.

There's a book in that, and a school you will found, with your husband teaching, as a boy's activity center, after school.

What you say is amazing and enlightening.
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amother


 

Post Mon, Dec 08 2014, 1:47 pm
Yes! And there should be more vocational yeshivas for kids who are not traditional learners and may never go into finance, law, or medicine. There are many good jobs out there for people who are good with their hands or who are highly intelligent but cannot handle the workload and testing load traditional education forces upon them.
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nyer1




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 08 2014, 1:48 pm
while we're on the topic, the 'arts' taught in schools is appalling. what a shame. a culture that values music and singing and culture so highly, and it's not even celebrated or encouraged in our schools. I know this is a totally different topic, but visual arts and performing arts is SO poor in our schools it's maddening.
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HindaRochel




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 08 2014, 2:19 pm
I think it is a great idea, as well as home economics and a variety of other courses that could lead to skills/job that can help someone throughout life.
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CatLady




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 08 2014, 3:29 pm
My DS went to public HS and had a mandatory Life Skills class, in which he learned basic skills including cooking, sewing, woodworking, etc. As a result, he has no problem whipping up dinner or doing minor repairs in his apartment without having to call the super.

What these classes really teach besides the basics is confidence. If you've held a drill or a chef's knife before, you can find instructional videos on YouTube, take classes at Home Depot, or whatever it takes to have some control over your environment. Not everyone can be a plumber, or wants to be one, but most people can fix the chain in their toilet or unblock a clogged drain.
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spring13




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 08 2014, 3:34 pm
Absolutely. I keep telling my FIL, who is retiring in a few years, that he should spend his retirement teaching this kind of thing to frum kids. I love that he taught my husband to be handy around the house!

And yes, more frum kids should be encouraged with this kind of career path, especially for when they're leaving yeshiva/kollel and have issues with going to college for an education in a more "white collar" field. Plumbing or electrician training programs are going to be low on women participants, which is a big plus for guys like that - but then again, in a heavily frum area there could be a market for a frum female plumber or whatever as well.
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little_mage




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 08 2014, 9:57 pm
Absolutely. My husband and I actually plan to encourage our children to go to vocational school, as opposed to a more standard liberal arts college. And this despite (or maybe because?) my husband is going to be an academic...
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ElTam




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 08 2014, 10:21 pm
I think it's a great idea. I know there is an organization in Israel that has half-day learning for kollel men, and half-day training with cabinetry and woodworking. The practice work goes to build families who need cabinets, pull out beds, etc. It is called birkas rivkah.

http://www.birkasrifka.org/
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 08 2014, 10:33 pm
YES! Both for boys and girls.

Life skills should be taught at the barest minimum, if nothing else. DH doesn't know which end of a screwdriver to use, and I'm always that one who ends up putting together the succah. Ditto with fixing leaking faucets, changing lightbulbs, or cooking anything that isn't instant coffee.

Not to take away from his hard work, parnossah, or learning, which he all does extremely well. It just feels like there's some essentials that are lacking when it comes to being able to take care of yourself, without having to call a [non jew] to come rescue you from your own incompetence.
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 08 2014, 10:41 pm
Nothing wrong with a woman adding a quart of oil when it measures low. We ladies can't be so helpless.
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worknights1313




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 08 2014, 10:44 pm
Yes. Among plenty of other things. It would allow kids who are unsuccessful or weaker in learning and academics in general to excel.
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Dina_B613




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 08 2014, 10:50 pm
YES! Schools need to be well-balanced, because kids are good at so many different things. I've often wished that there were a frum vocational school for boys and girls who just can't "do" a traditional academic track. It's something I'd be willing to put $ towards.

In other news - I heard about a high school (v frum!) that is teaching girls coding. So cool!
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